Religion and Politics thread coming soon....

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thealien666
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Re: Religion and Politics thread coming soon....

Post by thealien666 » Mon Apr 04, 2016 12:42 pm

Blah blah blah blah...

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Vsyevolod
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Re: Religion and Politics thread coming soon....

Post by Vsyevolod » Mon Apr 04, 2016 2:41 pm

unfiltered37 wrote:I am sure many mystics have had wonderful blissful experiences, but I have read about mysticism, spirituality, meditation, and while altered states can be reached using these practices, they don't go as far out as directly short circuiting neural networks with alkaloids, at least without underlying neuropathy. And the difference is that you can easily escape from a meditative state, and any bad or scary experience, if they even occur, can be avoided by any practiced meditator. When you start tripping hard, there is no escape and it's very hard to control, and like I said, at the 'peak experience" you have no real control and are just a floating force. And the other difference is that brain activity has been measured and studied extensively under things like hypnosis, meditation, "religious experience", etc, and nothing comes close to the effect of psychedelics.


I have read many accounts of LSD and hallucinogenic trips, and they're far more similar both in nature and scope to the experiences I have had vs religious mysticism, which is much more controlled.


I'd recommend meditation and mysticism over psychedelics because they are far less dangerous and far less powerful and scary.


With all due respect, you have experience with heavy duty doses of drugs though by your own admission you have only mild doses of meditative experiences. As I mentioned in a previous post, the continuum from slow and safe to dangerous meditation practices (what we call the 'acid trip' style of meditation) goes from very mild to permanent damage to body and psyche. In a very real way, there is much more potential for damage to be done via 'fast track' meditation practices vs. heavy drug usage.

Stephen




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unfiltered37
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Re: Religion and Politics thread coming soon....

Post by unfiltered37 » Mon Apr 04, 2016 2:59 pm

franklinstower wrote:
Who is to say she did not see Jesus in the mirror? I don't think the guy was Jesus though...



I think therein lies the rub. You are willing to give credibility to things only if they conform to your belief system. The guy was jesus christ just as much as the girl saw him in the mirror and the person you spoke of flew through holes in the sky to meet jesus. It's confirmation bias.

unfiltered37
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Re: Religion and Politics thread coming soon....

Post by unfiltered37 » Mon Apr 04, 2016 3:06 pm

Vsyevolod wrote:
unfiltered37 wrote:I am sure many mystics have had wonderful blissful experiences, but I have read about mysticism, spirituality, meditation, and while altered states can be reached using these practices, they don't go as far out as directly short circuiting neural networks with alkaloids, at least without underlying neuropathy. And the difference is that you can easily escape from a meditative state, and any bad or scary experience, if they even occur, can be avoided by any practiced meditator. When you start tripping hard, there is no escape and it's very hard to control, and like I said, at the 'peak experience" you have no real control and are just a floating force. And the other difference is that brain activity has been measured and studied extensively under things like hypnosis, meditation, "religious experience", etc, and nothing comes close to the effect of psychedelics.


I have read many accounts of LSD and hallucinogenic trips, and they're far more similar both in nature and scope to the experiences I have had vs religious mysticism, which is much more controlled.


I'd recommend meditation and mysticism over psychedelics because they are far less dangerous and far less powerful and scary.


With all due respect, you have experience with heavy duty doses of drugs though by your own admission you have only mild doses of meditative experiences. As I mentioned in a previous post, the continuum from slow and safe to dangerous meditation practices (what we call the 'acid trip' style of meditation) goes from very mild to permanent damage to body and psyche. In a very real way, there is much more potential for damage to be done via 'fast track' meditation practices vs. heavy drug usage.

Stephen




.


Depends on what you mean by "mild". I have pretty intense meditative experiences, but the intensity come from the state of blissfulness and peace. I have never seen any evidence of people doing permanent damage to themselves through meditation. But i am open to it, if you have any links or studies. All of the studies I have seen show fairly mild changes in brain activity (especially compared to drugs), even when the user reports an intense experience. Of course anyone can go insane at any time, but I have never heard of meditation causing permenant insanity.

franklinstower
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Re: Religion and Politics thread coming soon....

Post by franklinstower » Mon Apr 04, 2016 4:03 pm

unfiltered37 wrote:
franklinstower wrote:
Who is to say she did not see Jesus in the mirror? I don't think the guy was Jesus though...



I think therein lies the rub. You are willing to give credibility to things only if they conform to your belief system. The guy was jesus christ just as much as the girl saw him in the mirror and the person you spoke of flew through holes in the sky to meet jesus. It's confirmation bias.


I think that you think we are debating. I don't know you are wrong in your views or opinions. We may disagree but I am not saying you are wrong and I am right. There is a lot of room for mystery on the path. I have opinions that are formed through experiences that can be dead wrong and often are. If you think the guy was Jesus and I don't think the guy was Jesus, so what. People are allowed to disagree. I don't really see the problem here in either one of us. I could be dead wrong and would be happy to be-- if the guy is Jesus I want to go and meet him..... I just don't think he is. I have reasons for that but I don't know. If he was Jesus and I could meet him that would be way better for me wouldn't it?

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Re: Religion and Politics thread coming soon....

Post by Ledbetter » Mon Apr 04, 2016 7:10 pm

And what does Jesus look like anyway? Seriously.
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franklinstower
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Re: Religion and Politics thread coming soon....

Post by franklinstower » Mon Apr 04, 2016 7:33 pm

Well obviously he was a white guy with blue eyes!! :lol: :lol: :lol:


Here is an ineresting link-- http://www.popularmechanics.com/science ... 4/1282186/

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MRNUTTY
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Re: Religion and Politics thread coming soon....

Post by MRNUTTY » Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:51 am

thealien666 wrote:Blah blah blah blah...



Quite right my good man!
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Vsyevolod
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Re: Religion and Politics thread coming soon....

Post by Vsyevolod » Fri Apr 08, 2016 9:21 pm

MRNUTTY wrote:
thealien666 wrote:Blah blah blah blah...



Quite right my good man!



Okay, which one of you guys is FORCING these two poor beleaguered souls to read each and every post here? I mean, they're trying to have a life and you're just not letting them!

Stephen




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