Religion and Politics thread coming soon....

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wordsdrawnigh
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Re: Religion and Politics thread coming soon....

Post by wordsdrawnigh » Thu Mar 31, 2016 7:19 pm

MoogProg wrote:Does it matter at all what any of us think about another persons "junk"? How is this law supposed to protect anyone? Let's explore the law from a practical standpoint and see how works, if it does at all.

As a prophylactic against rape, we hope this law will stop the criminal before they enter the restroom. How is that going to happen? Should we bodily accost overly masculine persons from entering? Should we notify the park ranger when we see large hands on a lady? Is this a license to publicly ridicule people based on their looks or dress, in the name of prevention? "Hey, you don't look like a girl. Are you?", The Good Samaritan asks.

How the heck is this law supposed to work anyway?

But yeah, let's talk about our feelings about other people around us when we pee in public. I was interrupting something important it seems. /s :shock:
Obviously the law cannot prevent rapists from entering bathrooms. It does at least allow women to express their concerns about male-bodied occupants without having to worry about being accused of "discrimination."
namahshaman wrote: Is anyone else just disappointed that we have so many Christian Bible-beaters in the synthesizer community? ...I mean, what a bummer. Particularly, since Christianity tends to pick and choose which science to accept, while steadily rejecting any science that refutes the claims of their holy book. Too often we're told that we have to respect everyones beliefs, but that's not necessarily true. Some people's beliefs convince them that it's okay to rape children, or suicide bomb innocent people, or blow up abortion clinics. Are we to respect these beliefs? Are we to respect the Westboro Baptist Church with all their bigotry and selective hatred?

After all, it's the 21st Century. We have access to all the information one would need to realize that the Bible is pure mythology. In fact, if you do enough research, you'll find that Christianity was originally a psychedelic mushroom fertility cult, in which Christ was actually a personified symbol of the mushroom itself. I know that's hard to swallow for some, but try doing the research before you instinctually reject it. In time, this information and more will become common knowledge.. to the point where only a fact-loathing Trump supporter would still believe in a literal interpretation of the mythological bible. It's very simple to understand this if you want, just eat 5 dried grams of psilocybin alone in silent darkness, and you'll see plenty. :wink:

Religion was a necessary tool of evolution to get humanity to a certain point, like feudalism and patriarchy, but now it is out-of-date and completely irrelevant to the modern world...like feudalism and patriarchy. Organized religion is the crutch of moral-barbarians, indirectly supporting Hobbes' claim that we need a social contract to keep the peace. If you're a full-grown adult and you need some ancient book or an invisible daddy in the clouds to keep your morality in check, then you may exhibit some sociopathic traits. A modern, healthy, educated human being does not need a religious practice to inform them that it is wrong to murder, rape, steal, cheat, and hurt others.

Assuming Jesus was real for a second, everything he said really makes the rest of the bible moot. The dude hung out with prostitutes and criminals and welcomed everyone regardless of their station or beliefs. I'm pretty sure he wouldn't give a damn about who was using which restroom. Oh, and if you really want to point to one or two cases where a rapist cross-dressed in order to go in a restroom and seize his victim, then you can't ignore the hundreds of thousands of children who've been repeatedly raped by priests, pastors, and youth ministers. If any organization should be completely shut down because of rape, murder, and abuse, it's the Church. Put the bible down for a second and read a proper history book. From the crusades and the inquisition to the raping priests and the hinderance of scientific progress, Christianity has committed more violent and immoral atrocities than all the atheists, agnostics, and LGBTQs combined.
I do not follow any organized religions, but generally find militant atheists even more unbearable than the faithful. They build up castles of scientism to protect their egos, and accuse anyone who questions their ideology or one of its pseudoscientific theories (e.g. Darwinian evolution, Marxism, transgenderism, relativity) of being an ignorant fundamentalist Christian who determines their beliefs solely based on what is said in the bible. The hypocrisy is glaring. You talk about how you don't have to "respect the beliefs" of some people, while that is the very crime of which you accuse the trans-critical: because they don't accept the claims of transgenderism, they are "bigots."

It's perfectly acceptable to talk about pedophilia within the Catholic Church, but try and talk about pedophilia within the Hassidic community; then you are an "antisemite."

Some pretty awful things have been done in the name of Christianity, but why doesn't anyone ever talk about the atrocities committed by the Marxist atheists of the Soviet Union? What about the tens of millions who died during the Holodomor, the purges, and in the gulags?
Struble wrote:I know many women who were assigned female at birth who do not mind sharing bathrooms with their transgender sisters. Why is it that their voice is never heard? Why is it that the vocal minority of bigotry wins out?
[...]
The law doesn't protect anyone. It's still perfectly legal for a cis man to enter a woman's restroom. All it does is stigmatize a group of the populace and uses fear mongering to act like something is being done about rape. It's not doing anything to truly combat the rape culture. It just creates a hypothetical situation and creates a "solution" for it. It's like why we have to take our shoes off in airports, because one guy pretended to have a bomb in his shoe. It doesn't solve a real problem, it just solves an imaginary one. It allows politicians to pat themselves on the back for truly doing nothing about rape and allows the right to persecute a group of people who hasn't gotten their equal rights yet.

And yes, I'm uncomfortable using public restrooms as a cis man in the men's room. And if I can be this uncomfortable, imagine how uncomfortable a trans woman would be forced into the same restroom as cis males. At least in the women's room, there is a small degree of privacy for everyone.
"Privacy for everyone"... except the women. Who cares about protecting the rights of over 50% of the population if a group that constitutes one third of one percent might get their feelings hurt? Your liberal friends don't care, so surely it is acceptable for all women? Transwomen do not insist on individual bathrooms but on access to women's bathrooms, because their safety is a less a concern than their need to have their "gender identity" validated.

EricK
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Re: Religion and Politics thread coming soon....

Post by EricK » Thu Mar 31, 2016 7:58 pm

wordsdrawnigh wrote:why doesn't anyone ever talk about the atrocities committed by the Marxist atheists of the Soviet Union?
The difference between what Stalin did and the Crusader conquest of the western hemisphere (Which was FAR worse with much longer lasting implications) is that Stalin didn't have scripture or Papal Bulls to reference to justify his actions.

pseudoscientific theories (e.g. Darwinian evolution, Marxism, transgenderism, relativity)
You must be trolling.

trans critical
I already illustrated where your "criticism" is really ridicule. That's what makes you a bigot.
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Re: Religion and Politics thread coming soon....

Post by Struble » Thu Mar 31, 2016 8:41 pm

wordsdrawnigh wrote:"Privacy for everyone"... except the women. Who cares about protecting the rights of over 50% of the population if a group that constitutes one third of one percent might get their feelings hurt? Your liberal friends don't care, so surely it is acceptable for all women? Transwomen do not insist on individual bathrooms but on access to women's bathrooms, because their safety is a less a concern than their need to have their "gender identity" validated.
Oh, yes. I completely forgot. There is absolutely no privacy in a woman's restroom -- there is just a big hole in the center of the room that they all must hold hands as they squat over. :roll: in comparison to the "let's stand shoulder to shoulder and whip out our privates" of the men's room, there is indeed a higher degree of privacy when the room is completely filled with stalls that actually have doors on them.

Please, sir. Do yourself a favor. Please stop presuming to speak for others that are not like you. There isn't a huge movement of cis women asking for trans women to not be in their restrooms -- no, that particular crusade is led by cis men like you. It is not put out there because you and your idiot brothers want to protect cis women -- it's because you want to stigmatize something you don't understand and thus deem icky. No one asked for you to speak on behalf of the cis women.

You can act all high and mighty about this being about protection, but you really don't care. This doesn't protect anyone. It actually creates a situation where more people will be harmed than the law intends to protect. The statistics of violence against trans women are staggering. Both of physical and sexual nature. These laws put trans women in restrooms with bigots like you where they will be harassed, attacked and yes, raped. By people just like you, who agree with you. The men's room is a far less safe place for a trans woman than a women's room is a danger to cis women when a trans woman enters. But you don't care if a trans woman is hurt or raped or even killed. You fear them for not falling in your little box. You are okay with violence against good people, because they challenge your backwards ass beliefs. It's sad to know people like you still exist.
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Re: Religion and Politics thread coming soon....

Post by Struble » Thu Mar 31, 2016 8:55 pm

EricK wrote:
wordsdrawnigh wrote:trans critical
I already illustrated where your "criticism" is really ridicule. That's what makes you a bigot.
Bigots know that bigotry is wrong -- so they try to redefine their bigotry as something else to justify their belief that they are good people. They come up with different words and grasp to them as if they are not synonymous with hatred and fear. "Criticism" is just this guys code word. He doesn't want to accept that he's a bigot, so he acts like the word isn't just something trying to make his hatred sound intellectual, when even in his own shriveled pathetic heart -- he knows its base and reactionary and includes no thoughtful examinations.
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wordsdrawnigh
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Re: Religion and Politics thread coming soon....

Post by wordsdrawnigh » Thu Mar 31, 2016 9:39 pm

Coming from people like you, I feel honored to be called a "bigot." Enjoy your liberal circle jerk!

unfiltered37
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Re: Religion and Politics thread coming soon....

Post by unfiltered37 » Thu Mar 31, 2016 11:13 pm

wordsdrawnigh wrote:
I do not follow any organized religions, but generally find militant atheists even more unbearable than the faithful. They build up castles of scientism to protect their egos, and accuse anyone who questions their ideology or one of its pseudoscientific theories (e.g. Darwinian evolution, Marxism, transgenderism, relativity)

HAHA, Einstein is a psuedoscientist? Really? Wow, you must have huge balls bro. And I am sure you have Phds in theoretical physics and evolutionary biology since you so easily dismiss proven scientific facts. I love how when people like you want to seem more credible you say you don't believe in 'organized religion" but you most likely believe jesus was born of a virgin, resurrected, walked on water, made two coins appear in a fish's mouth, or that he was god incarnate, etc. Please tell me you reject christ and prove me wrong.

Now, let's hear what Francis Collins, the nobel prize winning mapper of the human genome, head of the national institute of health, and a CHRISTIAN, says about evolution:

“Darwin’s framework of variation and natural selection,” but especially Darwin’s picture of a Tree of Life—the common ancestry of all organisms on Earth—is unquestionably correct . Universal common descent by natural processes is scientifically non‐negotiable. The theory of neo‐Darwinian evolution cannot rationally be doubted by any educated person."

So you are either uneducated or irrational, take your pick. My guess is a little of both.

franklinstower
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Re: Religion and Politics thread coming soon....

Post by franklinstower » Fri Apr 01, 2016 12:53 am

namahshaman wrote:
franklinstower wrote:Its a new idea conceived of by someone (cant remember who) that does mushrooms and saw similarities between those states and pentecost and other Christian mystics. No one really takes it seriously.
Not exactly. Sure, Terence McKenna (perhaps the most experienced authority on psychedelics, along with his brother Dennis, a physicist) popularized the idea. However, the original idea was discovered by a man named John Marco Allegro. He was the leading linguistics expert involved in the translation of the Dead Sea Scrolls. He presents a remarkable amount of evidence for his claim in the book, The Sacred Mushroom and The Cross.

Also, franklinstower, I definitely respect your version of Christianity. Sadly, the majority (certainly the loudest anyway) of Christians are not so "enlightened."

I also agree that the states you speak of are attainable without "chemicals" (as you dismissively referred to them). In fact, I have experienced that without any outside chemicals as well. 12 years ago I fasted in total isolation for 4 days, drinking only water, and meditating and praying. I had an incredible "god" moment, on par with any religious experience I've ever read about. Years later I experienced something very similar (but even more intense) with Dimethyltryptamine. After reading several books about it, and endless books on fasting and meditation practices, I found that the correlation was not just in my head, so to speak, ha. Dr. Rick Strassman wrote a book called, DMT: The Spirit Molecule, in which he actually got permission to do a scientific study on DMT. According to his theory, the pineal gland actually creates and secretes DMT in your brain during deep meditation, near-death and intense religious experiences, and while you dream. He and McKenna both highlighted the molecular similarity between DMT and psilocybin, and how they do basically the same thing to the brain.

My religious experience through isolated fasting and meditation opened my eyes and sent me searching for more. Psychedelic plants however, taught me that religion stops halfway, it doesn't march boldly into the abyss with quite the same pioneering spirit. They also taught me that gurus, priests, monks, etc miss the ultimate point of it all...they get so caught up in piety and righteousness and dogma that they miss the eternal humor of the great comic joke. The mushroom once said to me (that's right, they actually speak to you in a voice...unlike God when you pray :wink: ):

"The holy man gets halfway up the mountain and turns around to preach to the people below. The Artist goes all the way to the top, paints a picture of the view, and brings it back down for everyone to see."

By pushing beyond the constraints of religion, psychedelics brought a much clearer understanding that transcended the perception culture had branded on my brain. My family raised me in a Christian church, so I was prone to relate my sober religious experience to symbolism I had learned through church and culture. Psychedelics push you beyond the constraints of culture and religion and politics, even language.

Terence McKenna once said (and I'm paraphrasing), Sure, joining a monastery and choosing a life of celibacy or practicing meditation for years might bring you to these transcendent experiences, maybe... But there is no "maybe" with a large enough dose of the same molecule that you're forcing your brain to produce with a strenuous religious practice.

Besides that, look up the work Timothy Leary did with prison inmates while still working at Harvard. Through mushroom therapy, his team was able to reverse the recidivism rate of the prisoners in the study. A tremendous feat that no amount of priests or chaplains has ever pulled off with inmates.

The main flaw in your rhetoric is that you seem to be considering the two experiences as mutually exclusive, or at the very least, one is superior to the other in your mind. I posit that they are all related and connected, much like all the energies and forces of the Universe. Countless human achievements have resulted from the responsible use of psychedelic plants, these entheogens.

In the words of Terence McKenna (while describing Allegro's discovery), "Jesus was a mushroom."


I am sorry if I offended you in any way. It is difficult if not nearly impossible to have a meaningful discussion that is not misconstrued on the net, As a rule I stay out of these discussions online. When I used the word chemicals I did not intend to be dismissive and again I apologize for any misunderstanding between us.

On the topic of Christianity it just seem absolutely impossible that it was started by a mushroom cult.... All of Jesus teachings are hard and difficult and the disciples as well, and all of the early church fathers, many of whom were great mystics and who left us their writings and teachings. There is just nothing in the literature that suggests some kind of easier softer way. (I am not saying there isn't one-- just that there is no evidence for it in Christianity) . It is absolutely clear that the Christian mystical path has always been attained by way of moral behaviour and devotion but with none of the techniques you find in many other religions.

My experince with mysticism is somewhat unique-- for the first ten years I had an extremely unusual amount of mystical experiences and they were also unusually intense. It was common for me to transcend all human thought and consciousness for hours at a time in endless blinding white light-- or sometimes also in the void, the darkness. I had many visions and experienced miracles that affected the physical world also. It was very intense-- there is a lot more, it was almost daily and towards the end constant for weeks at a time. Then one day it all went away and a new kind of light was shone on me from God and all I can say is that the next ten years were very difficult and without a plethora of mystical experience and were of the more traditional variety of hard work, meditation and self examination, of constantly having mystical awareness of my limitations and weaknesses (different than the those types I had during the first ten years, much much deeper) and getting my moral behavior in line with Jesus and his teachings It was slow change and difficult change and it made a man out of me. It was in this ten year period that I began to experience Christ, the Christ of the New Testament and it has been for me - very profound.

My present experience is a mix of the two but the later ten years of my journey-- the part I thought I had skipped over, is the part that made me ten times the man I was before, more mature, more able to endure suffering and difficult situations for others benefit, more able to give my life to serving humanity not wanting something in return. If I had to choose the benefit of only one of those ten year periods I would choose the later without question. In every way the difficult part of the journey has benefited me more although both is obviously better.


Obviously there are a hundred other ways this can all unfold and I am assuming that your experience is 100% valid and wish you the very best on your journey. Again if my tone in that last post was off in any way I apologize. Internet threads are hard-- one day we will all share one mind and we won't have misunderstandings.

EricK
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Re: Religion and Politics thread coming soon....

Post by EricK » Fri Apr 01, 2016 1:34 am

franklinstower wrote:On the topic of Christianity it just seem absolutely impossible that it was started by a mushroom cult.... All of Jesus teachings are hard and difficult and the disciples as well, and all of the early church fathers, many of whom were great mystics and who left us their writings and teachings. There is just nothing in the literature that suggests some kind of easier softer way. (I am not saying there isn't one-- just that there is no evidence for it in Christianity).
You are absolutely correct. The development of apocalyptic literature in post-exile, Second Temple Judaism is part of what led to the development of schismatic sub-sects of itinerant millenarian mystic preachers. If the title of messiah hadn’t been attributed to Jesus of Nazareth, it would have probably been someone else eventually.

If one spends the time to comb through the works of Irenaeus, Origen, Tertullian, etc, it will quickly become apparent (especially in Irenaeus’ Against Heresies) that adherents to other sects were accused of all manners of what were then considered (and now even) extraordinarily taboo acts of sexual deviancy. The existence of a sect who believed Jesus was a fungus, while not impossible considering the diversity within early Christianity, seems like a rather ridiculous premise which the heresiologists would have quickly dismissed if they knew about it. Mushrooms are quite less of a sin than the other stuff they were accused of, and all of those depictions of "heresies" have to be treated with kid gloves anyway. I don't know what evidence the author of that book used to justify that, but the evidence for the humanity of Jesus of Nazareth satisfies criteria to the degree that the majority of historians of the subject agree he did exist.

Eric

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Unfiltered,
And Collins is a Christian.
Last edited by EricK on Fri Apr 01, 2016 11:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Religion and Politics thread coming soon....

Post by analoghaze » Fri Apr 01, 2016 5:41 am

I liked it better when Moog's April Fools joke was a fake Fooger.
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Re: Religion and Politics thread coming soon....

Post by MoogProg » Fri Apr 01, 2016 8:27 am

wordsdrawnigh wrote:Obviously the law cannot prevent rapists from entering bathrooms. It does at least allow women to express their concerns about male-bodied occupants without having to worry about being accused of "discrimination."
What a relief! Those Women now feel safe to express their concerns about people who look too masculine, or too feminine. Is there a report they fill out, or should they just dial 911? Ridiculousness!

Seriously folks, do any of you know people directly affected by this law? Do you have standing to criticize this law? Are you just being a "blowhard"? All of you, expect Moog who as an employer has a direct involvement with this legislation.

I know five people who are affected by this, and each of them is of a very different character. Some I like very much, others I dislike equally. People are funny that way, always their own beings.

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Re: Religion and Politics thread coming soon....

Post by TimeEchoProductions » Fri Apr 01, 2016 9:58 am

At first I was really annoyed by this thread but it has become more fascinating as it goes.
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Re: Religion and Politics thread coming soon....

Post by slabwax » Fri Apr 01, 2016 2:34 pm

Just to weigh in here.

First of all this law is about much more then where someone can pee. It is a law that makes it legal to fire someone because of who they are. You can kick someone out of their apt or deny them a home loan because of who they choose to love. One can deny basic needs such as a bathroom. you could deny someone the right to buy gas at a gas station. Could a privately owned ambulance company refuse to transport an injured person based on their sexual orientation? It's a slippery slope when you start denying people basic human rights. And it kills a civil society. Don't believe me, ask anyone of Eastern European Jewish heritage and I'm talking long before 1933.

This Christian argument was the exact same argument that was used to keep blacks as slaves. It's the same argument that was used to stop interracial marriages and renting motel rooms of said interracial marriage. It's a long broken ideology.


If I opened a business in my little liberal city of Seattle do I have the right as an Atheist to fire someone or kick them out of my rental property or my??? because they are Christian or a Republican? Trust me I could make a very good moral argument against certain believe systems. What's good for one is good for all.


But back to the subject of where someone can pee. If anyone thinks for a second that the same people who want to limit restroom access to natural born gender identification are going accept a Trans (born male) using the male restroom dressed as a women without confrontation I think you are being very naive. When has a rapist ever respected a restroom sign, what are they not going into the women's restroom because it says Women only?

And now that I'm off my soapbox.
I would like to applaud Moog Music for making a public and vocal stand for inclusion and for supporting basic human rights. Moog has earned my respect at something much more important then the synthesizer, the belief in dignity for everyone.

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Re: Religion and Politics thread coming soon....

Post by MoogProg » Fri Apr 01, 2016 3:45 pm

slabwax wrote:First of all this law is about much more then where someone can pee. It is a law that makes it legal to fire someone because of who they are. You can kick someone out of their apt or deny them a home loan because of who they choose to love. One can deny basic needs such as a bathroom. you could deny someone the right to buy gas at a gas station. Could a privately owned ambulance company refuse to transport an injured person based on their sexual orientation? It's a slippery slope when you start denying people basic human rights. And it kills a civil society. Don't believe me, ask anyone of Eastern European Jewish heritage and I'm talking long before 1933.
Well, up around WNC, a lot of the people affected by this are already under-the-gaydar of those who would exercise their new "rights" upon them. It always amazed me how my coworkers had no idea about our short-haired, pants-wearing associate. LOL She was a great worker, and everyone loved her. Hope she's not fired. :shock:

namahshaman
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Re: Religion and Politics thread coming soon....

Post by namahshaman » Fri Apr 01, 2016 4:22 pm

franklinstower wrote:
namahshaman wrote:
franklinstower wrote:Its a new idea conceived of by someone (cant remember who) that does mushrooms and saw similarities between those states and pentecost and other Christian mystics. No one really takes it seriously.
Not exactly. Sure, Terence McKenna (perhaps the most experienced authority on psychedelics, along with his brother Dennis, a physicist) popularized the idea. However, the original idea was discovered by a man named John Marco Allegro. He was the leading linguistics expert involved in the translation of the Dead Sea Scrolls. He presents a remarkable amount of evidence for his claim in the book, The Sacred Mushroom and The Cross.

Also, franklinstower, I definitely respect your version of Christianity. Sadly, the majority (certainly the loudest anyway) of Christians are not so "enlightened."

I also agree that the states you speak of are attainable without "chemicals" (as you dismissively referred to them). In fact, I have experienced that without any outside chemicals as well. 12 years ago I fasted in total isolation for 4 days, drinking only water, and meditating and praying. I had an incredible "god" moment, on par with any religious experience I've ever read about. Years later I experienced something very similar (but even more intense) with Dimethyltryptamine. After reading several books about it, and endless books on fasting and meditation practices, I found that the correlation was not just in my head, so to speak, ha. Dr. Rick Strassman wrote a book called, DMT: The Spirit Molecule, in which he actually got permission to do a scientific study on DMT. According to his theory, the pineal gland actually creates and secretes DMT in your brain during deep meditation, near-death and intense religious experiences, and while you dream. He and McKenna both highlighted the molecular similarity between DMT and psilocybin, and how they do basically the same thing to the brain.

My religious experience through isolated fasting and meditation opened my eyes and sent me searching for more. Psychedelic plants however, taught me that religion stops halfway, it doesn't march boldly into the abyss with quite the same pioneering spirit. They also taught me that gurus, priests, monks, etc miss the ultimate point of it all...they get so caught up in piety and righteousness and dogma that they miss the eternal humor of the great comic joke. The mushroom once said to me (that's right, they actually speak to you in a voice...unlike God when you pray :wink: ):

"The holy man gets halfway up the mountain and turns around to preach to the people below. The Artist goes all the way to the top, paints a picture of the view, and brings it back down for everyone to see."

By pushing beyond the constraints of religion, psychedelics brought a much clearer understanding that transcended the perception culture had branded on my brain. My family raised me in a Christian church, so I was prone to relate my sober religious experience to symbolism I had learned through church and culture. Psychedelics push you beyond the constraints of culture and religion and politics, even language.

Terence McKenna once said (and I'm paraphrasing), Sure, joining a monastery and choosing a life of celibacy or practicing meditation for years might bring you to these transcendent experiences, maybe... But there is no "maybe" with a large enough dose of the same molecule that you're forcing your brain to produce with a strenuous religious practice.

Besides that, look up the work Timothy Leary did with prison inmates while still working at Harvard. Through mushroom therapy, his team was able to reverse the recidivism rate of the prisoners in the study. A tremendous feat that no amount of priests or chaplains has ever pulled off with inmates.

The main flaw in your rhetoric is that you seem to be considering the two experiences as mutually exclusive, or at the very least, one is superior to the other in your mind. I posit that they are all related and connected, much like all the energies and forces of the Universe. Countless human achievements have resulted from the responsible use of psychedelic plants, these entheogens.

In the words of Terence McKenna (while describing Allegro's discovery), "Jesus was a mushroom."


I am sorry if I offended you in any way. It is difficult if not nearly impossible to have a meaningful discussion that is not misconstrued on the net, As a rule I stay out of these discussions online. When I used the word chemicals I did not intend to be dismissive and again I apologize for any misunderstanding between us.

On the topic of Christianity it just seem absolutely impossible that it was started by a mushroom cult.... All of Jesus teachings are hard and difficult and the disciples as well, and all of the early church fathers, many of whom were great mystics and who left us their writings and teachings. There is just nothing in the literature that suggests some kind of easier softer way. (I am not saying there isn't one-- just that there is no evidence for it in Christianity) . It is absolutely clear that the Christian mystical path has always been attained by way of moral behaviour and devotion but with none of the techniques you find in many other religions.

My experince with mysticism is somewhat unique-- for the first ten years I had an extremely unusual amount of mystical experiences and they were also unusually intense. It was common for me to transcend all human thought and consciousness for hours at a time in endless blinding white light-- or sometimes also in the void, the darkness. I had many visions and experienced miracles that affected the physical world also. It was very intense-- there is a lot more, it was almost daily and towards the end constant for weeks at a time. Then one day it all went away and a new kind of light was shone on me from God and all I can say is that the next ten years were very difficult and without a plethora of mystical experience and were of the more traditional variety of hard work, meditation and self examination, of constantly having mystical awareness of my limitations and weaknesses (different than the those types I had during the first ten years, much much deeper) and getting my moral behavior in line with Jesus and his teachings It was slow change and difficult change and it made a man out of me. It was in this ten year period that I began to experience Christ, the Christ of the New Testament and it has been for me - very profound.

My present experience is a mix of the two but the later ten years of my journey-- the part I thought I had skipped over, is the part that made me ten times the man I was before, more mature, more able to endure suffering and difficult situations for others benefit, more able to give my life to serving humanity not wanting something in return. If I had to choose the benefit of only one of those ten year periods I would choose the later without question. In every way the difficult part of the journey has benefited me more although both is obviously better.


Obviously there are a hundred other ways this can all unfold and I am assuming that your experience is 100% valid and wish you the very best on your journey. Again if my tone in that last post was off in any way I apologize. Internet threads are hard-- one day we will all share one mind and we won't have misunderstandings.

No offense taken, no worries.

I agree that the teachings of Jesus are aligned with cosmic consciousness (or whatever you wanna call it :wink:), but it seems amiss to assume that he said anything that wasn't said before his existence, like Buddha 500 years prior, many before him, and many between him and Jesus. In fact, every single lesson Christ taught is a lesson that the mushroom can teach you. The only real hitch in your argument is that you've only tried it your way (like most religious folks). I grew up in church, studied the bible, studied other religions and philosophies, even the occult and Magick. However, the transcendent psychedelic experience provided the missing link that tied it all together so beautifully that it became impossible to believe that any one way could be the only right way. So, even when you've tried the Christians method, they're never willing to try your method. :D For the life of me, I just can't seem to get a Christian to willingly ingest the divine entheogen, let alone 5 dried grams alone in silent darkness. :lol: According to the model that true knowledge only comes from direct experience, until you've partaken in the food of the gods, the real holy sacrament, you have no bases upon which to make your argument against it.

Of course the idea that Christ was a personified symbol of the mushroom sounds insane and silly by todays cultural standards. But, if you dig deep enough, you'll find that shamanism was the original source of spiritual practice and mystical experience throughout the world. However, for anyone who's ever eaten the proper dose, this makes more sense than any other explanation out there. And until you've taken that dose, you may as well be arguing with Neil Armstrong about what it's like to walk on the Moon. :wink:

Besides, if Christ is your lord and protector, what is there to be afraid of from a harmless learning experience? An experience that is currently being scientifically proven to possess an array of incredible benefits for humanity.

EricK
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Re: Religion and Politics thread coming soon....

Post by EricK » Fri Apr 01, 2016 5:00 pm

namahshaman wrote:Of course the idea that Christ was a personified symbol of the mushroom sounds insane and silly by todays cultural standards.
And also by by first-century Roman standards.Your claim is not supported by the availability of historical evidence.

I see where Mississippi has passed a similar bill.

This is going to continue until the LGBT community gets a constitutional amendment explicitly delineating full-citizenship of the groups protected.
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I think I hear the mothership coming.

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