Religion and Politics thread coming soon....

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MacAquinas
Posts: 91
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2014 1:50 am

Religion and Politics thread coming soon....

Post by MacAquinas » Sat Mar 26, 2016 1:31 am

Just got an e-mail from Moog and am following their lead and starting a discussion of hot button issues where we can insult each other and get angry at each other, because that's what a musical instrument company should really be about, shouldn't it? So the rules are simple and as follows, discuss only emotionally charged issues of Religion and Politics and be sure to accuse anyone who disagrees with you of being ignorant and filled with hate. Moog Super Pac coming soon.......


If this post is deleted I had better be receiving a retraction and apology e-mail from Moog for starting this.
Black Minimoog Voyager XL, Sub37, Slim Phatty, Mother-32, MF-104M SD, MF-105M, MP-201, CP-251, Theremini, Animoog ;-) . Roland Fantom G8 & Integra-7, Korg MS-20

joelsampson
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Re: Religion and Politics thread coming soon....

Post by joelsampson » Sat Mar 26, 2016 3:14 am

I agree. Moog should have stayed out of it. Ashville, NC is VERY liberal, and perhaps that's why. . .

franklinstower
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Re: Religion and Politics thread coming soon....

Post by franklinstower » Sat Mar 26, 2016 3:17 am

What are you guys talking about?

mikeh11
Posts: 213
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Re: Religion and Politics thread coming soon....

Post by mikeh11 » Sat Mar 26, 2016 8:25 am

If you signed up for email notices, you probably got one.

It was a note saying they don't like a certain bill that the NC government pushed through (closed door, fast track, no discussion), basically making it legal to discriminate. (I thought I saw somewhere that Georgia has something similar going, where businesses can fire you if they don't like your religion.) Frankly, my opinion only, North Carolina's government is kind of wacky. (Remember when they passed a law denying climate change?)

Anyway, I'm glad, and proud, that Moog took this position. I read a news article about how the three professional sports teams in NC waffled on the subject and had no opinion, and I thought that was very weak of them.

See? We can talk about it without going all Cruz-y and Trump-ing on each other! :wink:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal,
that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights,
that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving
their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any
Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of
the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government,
laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in
such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and
Happiness.
MBP 2012 | OS X 10.11.6 | Sub 37 #6768

EricK
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Re: Religion and Politics thread coming soon....

Post by EricK » Sat Mar 26, 2016 10:26 am

I saw on twitter where Moog came out against the NC bill and it's damn good they did.

I'm an atheist and I got instant online ordination because people here in Arkansas were refusing to perform same sex marriages. So I'm registered with the county to officiate weddings. I'm absolutely sick of the bigotry that comes from the religious right in this country and it's time that people take a stand against it.
Support the Bob Moog Foundation:
https://npo.networkforgood.org/Donate/Donate.aspx?npoSubscriptionId=4043

I think I hear the mothership coming.

namahshaman
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Re: Religion and Politics thread coming soon....

Post by namahshaman » Sat Mar 26, 2016 11:27 am

Well said, Erick,

To the OP, I don't think this is even about religion or politics really. It's about personal freedom and individual rights, principles this country is supposed to stand for, regardless of political affiliation. I'm proud of Moog Music and I stand behind their statement. I don't want to argue with anyone here either. I love all of my Moog family, and I support individual human rights for all people. Love one another. Support one another. And make music together. :D

Struble
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Re: Religion and Politics thread coming soon....

Post by Struble » Sat Mar 26, 2016 2:33 pm

If you think you love synthesis, but don't respect the rights of trans people -- you don't know your synthesizer history. Good on Moog. They're good people.
http://DepressedBoy.com

Equipment: Moog Werkstatt; Arturia Microbrute; Syntecno TeeBee; Elektron Sidstation; Korg Volca Keys, Electribe ER-1, Monotron; MidiNES; Teenage Engineering PO-12; Roland Boutique JP-08; BeatStep Pro; GameBoy

Rob Smith
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Location: Huntington, NY

Re: Religion and Politics thread coming soon....

Post by Rob Smith » Sat Mar 26, 2016 3:09 pm

......
Last edited by Rob Smith on Tue Mar 29, 2016 8:52 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Scott Rolf
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Location: So. Cal.

Re: Religion and Politics thread coming soon....

Post by Scott Rolf » Sat Mar 26, 2016 3:57 pm

It was not necessary for moog to go "Starbucks" on us by vocalizing their opinions toward me in a personal email.

Listen. I approach life, religion, politics and philosophy much like I would a salad bar.
I fill my plate with what suites me and leave the rest.
If the person behind me makes their own selections then that's fine. It's their right in none of my business.
However, I also feel that neither one of us has the right to force-feed the other with their choices.

What was stated in moog's email is not relevant.
What IS relevant is that they felt is necessary to say anything at all.

You just went Exon on me and poisoned the waters.
Rael Imperial Aerosol Kid

Scott Rolf
Posts: 151
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Location: So. Cal.

Re: Religion and Politics thread coming soon....

Post by Scott Rolf » Sat Mar 26, 2016 4:00 pm

[quote="namahshaman"
To the OP, I don't think this is even about religion or politics really. It's about personal freedom and individual rights, principles this country is supposed to stand for, regardless of political affiliation. I'm proud of Moog Music and I stand behind their statement. I don't want to argue with anyone here either. I love all of my Moog family, and I support individual human rights for all people. Love one another. Support one another. And make music together. :D[/quote]

You're missing the point.
Moog should not have said anything at all.
Rael Imperial Aerosol Kid

Spitfire
Posts: 142
Joined: Mon May 23, 2011 8:07 pm

Re: Religion and Politics thread coming soon....

Post by Spitfire » Sat Mar 26, 2016 5:53 pm

In a society where corporations skirt accountability and responsibility, and certain political factions endorse such behavior (not to mention that such factions believe in welfare for big businesses and not for the poor), I am impressed with Moog for simply stating, in a concise and graceful manner, that they support equal rights for all, and that they stand behind their employees, fans, and other stakeholders affected by North Carolina's little law. Considering how, since the late 19th century, businesses are considered "individuals" under federal law, Moog is simply stating its opinion, again, concisely and gracefully as a responsible citizen.

I wouldn't want to do business with a company that doesn't resonate with my values, so I'm glad to see that Moog took a brief moment to share its views on the matter. Moog isn't imposing its views on anyone; they just took a stance and shared it with their stakeholders. Rather, the government of NC has imposed its views, and the views of the factions that manipulate it, upon the people.

So, is this religion and politics? Regardless of whatever subjective classification is applied to the matter, indeed "Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness" is part of our federal government's mission statement. This is a matter of decency and equality as it relates to our LGBTQ brothers and sisters, regardless of gender identity and sexual orientation. I kind of like that Moog, to borrow a metaphor used in this thread, shared the ingredients it includes in its "salad" and that it likes it that way. Cool. It's when others who have the enormous responsibility of designing the menu, and decide to refuse service to a select group of people because of an otherness or alienness attributed to that "group" that we have an enormous social problem. Government has a social contract with the people, and its job is to serve the entire population.

It's really something, to see how political factions like those in NC claim to be all about freedom, but then dedicate their efforts and diligence to quickly restrict the freedoms of some and ensure the dominance of others. No one is asking the people of NC to be gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender; all that is expected is that everyone - everyone - have access to the same rights and liberties afforded to all by our nation's constitution. Besides, since religion was mentioned by someone else in a previous post, let us not forget that the first amendment also ensures the separation of church and state.

I am glad Moog said something. I am all for LGBTQ and all basic human and animal rights. That's just me. That's what I like on my sociopolitical salad :lol: (that last sentence just sounds weird but it's another reference to someone else's salad metaphor... anyway).

Well, that was my 2 cents' worth... I apologize if you've all been a bit overcharged. =) That's all I'll say on this, sooooo... for now, byeeeeeeeeee! :mrgreen:
Last edited by Spitfire on Sat Mar 26, 2016 7:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Minimoog Model D / Moog Little Phatty TE / DSI Prophet 08 / Elektron Digitone / Elektron Octatrack Mkii / Clavia Nord Wave / Nord Drum II / Clavia Nord Lead 3 / Roland TR-707 / Roland TB-03 / Korg MS-20 / Access Virus TI 2 Polar / Roland SH-101 /:mrgreen:

Struble
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Re: Religion and Politics thread coming soon....

Post by Struble » Sat Mar 26, 2016 6:38 pm

Scott Rolf wrote:You're missing the point.
Moog should not have said anything at all.


No. You're missing the point. You don't keep quiet about injustice. I'm sorry that you don't believe in basic human rights for everybody, but that doesn't mean the rest of us should kowtow to your beliefs. Moog is a principled company, and they couldn't sit idly by when something so horrible is being done in the name of their home state. If that poisons the waters for you, good more Moog products for the rest of us. Go buy yourself a Nord.

You wouldn't even know about Moog and synths if it weren't for Wendy Carlos. Moog knows they are indebted to her.
http://DepressedBoy.com

Equipment: Moog Werkstatt; Arturia Microbrute; Syntecno TeeBee; Elektron Sidstation; Korg Volca Keys, Electribe ER-1, Monotron; MidiNES; Teenage Engineering PO-12; Roland Boutique JP-08; BeatStep Pro; GameBoy

wordsdrawnigh
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Re: Religion and Politics thread coming soon....

Post by wordsdrawnigh » Sat Mar 26, 2016 7:24 pm

Struble wrote:If you think you love synthesis, but don't respect the rights of trans people -- you don't know your synthesizer history. Good on Moog. They're good people.


Ok, well, I can respect the "rights of transpeople" (which are the same rights as anyone else), while not accepting the notion that people can change their sex. Sexual dimorphism is simply a fact of biology (intersex is extremely rare, and unrelated to the recent phenomenon of transgenderism); you cannot change your chromosomes with surgery or artificial hormones.

I appreciate the work of Wendy Carlos, but he is still a man.

c7sus
Posts: 468
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Re: Religion and Politics thread coming soon....

Post by c7sus » Sat Mar 26, 2016 8:11 pm

Contact Moog Support for a "Hurt Feelings" form.
Voyager EB #165, T3 #292, MF-101, 102, 103, 104SD, 2x104MSD, 105M, 107, 108M, MP-201, VX-351, CP-251, Frostwave Fat Controller.

Struble
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Re: Religion and Politics thread coming soon....

Post by Struble » Sat Mar 26, 2016 8:32 pm

wordsdrawnigh wrote:
Struble wrote:If you think you love synthesis, but don't respect the rights of trans people -- you don't know your synthesizer history. Good on Moog. They're good people.


Ok, well, I can respect the "rights of transpeople" (which are the same rights as anyone else), while not accepting the notion that people can change their sex. Sexual dimorphism is simply a fact of biology (intersex is extremely rare, and unrelated to the recent phenomenon of transgenderism); you cannot change your chromosomes with surgery or artificial hormones.

I appreciate the work of Wendy Carlos, but he is still a man.


You are still a bigot. If you hate Moog so much for this, why are you still here? Notice that not a single person in this thread has taken your side. You are on the wrong side of history. And if you want to try and sound smart talking about you're backwards view about trans people -- learn the difference between sex and gender. Also, crack a history book -- transgender dismorphia is in no ways recent nor a phenomenon. Sell your Moog gear and get out, and then you'll never have to worry about Moog sharing your feelings ever again. Either that, or grow up and shut the hell up and realize that there is life outside of your cis privilege, and that you need to respect your fellow human beings.
http://DepressedBoy.com

Equipment: Moog Werkstatt; Arturia Microbrute; Syntecno TeeBee; Elektron Sidstation; Korg Volca Keys, Electribe ER-1, Monotron; MidiNES; Teenage Engineering PO-12; Roland Boutique JP-08; BeatStep Pro; GameBoy

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