Just bought a Model D on eBay...

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thealien666
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Re: Just bought a Model D on eBay...

Post by thealien666 » Tue Mar 01, 2016 10:46 am

I agree with EricK. If they did a good job on the contacts, it should work fine for a long while, especially if it's played regularly.

But if the keyboard starts acting up early on, you can go for the Opto-Key then.

Anyway, enjoy your new fantastic sounding piece of history ! That's the main thing !

Alain.
Moog Minimoog D (1975)
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Spumoni
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Re: Just bought a Model D on eBay...

Post by Spumoni » Thu Mar 03, 2016 9:34 am

I finally received the Moog! It was packed very well, but I immediately noticed that something was rattling around the inside of the panel. Turned out a screw and an insulated washer holding one of the boards had fallen out - the other screw was totally missing. Nothing serious. Some of the keys still don't work like they should, and I still can't get the modulation to work right. I've already emailed them and they asked me to test it more - they have been very receptive so far. Considering this is my first Minimoog, there could be a lot of user error here. I really don't want to send this thing out again, especially after having it gone for over a month, and I'm very anxious to refinish the cabinet and get this thing proper again! Here's a video showing the bad keys and faulty modulation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4hvG4FUb6g
Last edited by Spumoni on Thu Mar 03, 2016 1:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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thealien666
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Re: Just bought a Model D on eBay...

Post by thealien666 » Thu Mar 03, 2016 12:28 pm

I've watched the video, and I'm sorry to say that Analog Lab are (is ?) incompetent. They may be very receptive, but really incompetent at cleaning contacts of a Minimoog D keyboard, and switches and potentiometer, all of which are still dirty and scratchy. Moreover, they overcharge for that pretty lousy work. Especially with a rattling loose screw inside the casing on top of that.
Frankly, it's unfortunate that such scammers are still in business, good communication notwithstanding.

Note: On the modulation thing in the video, you need to put oscillator 3 into LO mode, and flip the OSC 3 CONTROL switch to off (lower position), and move the MODULATION MIX knob to OSC 3 (counterclockwise) in order to get a low speed vibrato out of the oscillators with the MOD WHEEL, with the OSCILLATOR MODULATION switch set to ON (right position).
What you're doing in the video is using the NOISE as a modulation (fast random change of the pitch), which results in pretty much what you're hearing normally (except for the scratchy pot and switch).

Your interrogation as to wether of not to go for the Opto-Key systems seems clear now. Go for it. But don't have Analog Lab install it.

Alain.
Moog Minimoog D (1975)
DSI OB6
DSI Prophet REV2
Oberheim Matrix-6
Ensoniq SQ-80
Korg DW8000
Behringer DeepMind 12
Alesis Ion

Spumoni
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Re: Just bought a Model D on eBay...

Post by Spumoni » Thu Mar 03, 2016 1:18 pm

Alain - Thanks very much for that info. I had a feeling it was user error - I already have the entire unit completely apart and removed from it's case so it can get refinished. I may try hooking up the unit out of it's case and testing that know that I have the right info.

Yes, I'm very sad it cost this much to fix and it's still not right, but if it can all be solved by the opto-key, I will be doing that myself ASAP. Now that I know the rest can be resolved on my own (hopefully) I can begin the renovation process. Even though I don't intend to sell it, I'm fairly confident that I could probably get back what I have into it (which eases the pain a bit).

I'll be posting more pics of the process.

Again, thanks for the info. It's very helpful.
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TOS
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Re: Just bought a Model D on eBay...

Post by TOS » Thu Mar 03, 2016 1:36 pm

Watched the video, sad, sad, sad! I do a lot of MiniMoog's which is my primary focus, and this is about as bad as one is when it comes in; returning it as repaired to a customer like this does nothing for the vintage service industry or VA's reputation. Seems to me that they should either make this good at their cost, or give you a serious refund.

From the pictures during repair and the post repair experience I would say your key contact assy needs all of the springs replacing with new ones. They are not cheap and of course have to be fitted correctly which is a bunch more labor and needs to be done by someone with the right skill-set. Some melted parts might need changing, and the state of the buss-bars is unknown.

I know you do not want to send your MiniMoog out again. Opto-key is a user install kit, but from the video you need other items serviced too.

I'm here to get your MiniMoog singing again if you decide not to move forward (backwards) with VA and want my help. As an option, if you wanted to remove the keyboard and send that to me while you refinish the case, or the whole unit (makes the most sense as I think it needs a full service) then that is doable.

Chris Hewitt
This Old Synth
San Jose, CA
This Old Synth, the new home of Synthfool's Opto-Key project.
www.thisoldsynth.com

Spumoni
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Re: Just bought a Model D on eBay...

Post by Spumoni » Thu Mar 03, 2016 1:47 pm

Hello Chris - thanks for the reply! I definitely don't want to mess around with correcting the key contact issue - I plan on doing the opto-key mod myself. Shouldn't this correct all of the bad key issues?

Can you please explain why you think the keyboard itself needs work if even if I plan on installing the opto-kit? Also, what else did you think needs servicing aside from the bad keys?

Thanks Chris.

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thealien666
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Re: Just bought a Model D on eBay...

Post by thealien666 » Thu Mar 03, 2016 1:57 pm

You're welcome, Spumoni. And Since you already have the keybed removed, it would be relatively easy to install the Opto-Key yourself. No holes to drill, no wires to solder.
Of course, you could always send only the keybed to Chris, as he suggested, and have it installed by a genuinely qualified and experienced tech.

I would seriously ask for a full (or at least partial) refund of the expensive and poor work done (if any at all ?) from Analog Lab. Let's see how communicative and understanding they'll be about that !

I sincerely hope that you eventually get to play your properly working Minimoog D one day. You won't regret it !

Alain.

EDIT: oops, took too long to send my reply, didn't realize you'd already replied to Chris... Oh well. :roll: :lol:
Moog Minimoog D (1975)
DSI OB6
DSI Prophet REV2
Oberheim Matrix-6
Ensoniq SQ-80
Korg DW8000
Behringer DeepMind 12
Alesis Ion

TOS
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Re: Just bought a Model D on eBay...

Post by TOS » Thu Mar 03, 2016 2:35 pm

We are getting out of sync here eh, and as my post got behind yours I now see you have taken it apart so beyond sending it back to AL.

Shouldn't this correct all of the bad key issues? Per Alain's reply, yes, as long as it was re-bushed and the bushing posts were correctly aligned by AL. Download the install doc from my site where it details the action. It is not a difficult install as long as you have the manual skills. Having taken the mini apart I think you do!

Can you please explain why you think the keyboard itself needs work if even if I plan on installing the opto-kit? Also, what else did you think needs servicing aside from the bad keys? I was referring to switch and connector contact cleaning on the main unit, along with cleaning the pins on the modulator panel connector. I do a lot of reliability/ stability things like changing op-amps, replacing the cronky osc card pots with multi-turn ones, wiring in the unused second halves of the range switches, fitting the Moog factory pitch centering mod, and more.

I think you should get the basics done and install Opto-key, then see if any of these other things gives benefit.

Chris Hewitt
This Old Synth
San Jose, CA
This Old Synth, the new home of Synthfool's Opto-Key project.
www.thisoldsynth.com

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noddyspuncture
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Re: Just bought a Model D on eBay...

Post by noddyspuncture » Thu Mar 03, 2016 3:32 pm

Spumoni wrote:Here's a video showing the bad keys and faulty modulation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4hvG4FUb6g


That is abysmal... and how much did you say these "repairs" cost you...?

:?

Spumoni
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Re: Just bought a Model D on eBay...

Post by Spumoni » Thu Mar 03, 2016 4:26 pm

Hello Chris:

I know the bushings were fairly new - hopefully the bushing pots were correctly aligned as well. How can I go about purchasing the opto-key kit? I'm ready to make that purchase now. Perhaps I can handle the simple things like cleaning the contact connectors, etc. Just maybe it will be good enough?

Thanks,

Tony

EricK
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Re: Just bought a Model D on eBay...

Post by EricK » Thu Mar 03, 2016 4:56 pm

If you bought a POS off of Ebay and AL had to go above and beyond the call of duty to get it working flawlessly. then I can see them charging out the ass for that.
But what you describe about the key contacts and having to take it apart numerous times sounds like you got screwed.

You should post your correspondence with those guys so we can know exactly what they said they did, and the synth community can know to avoid those guys.

I'd say if you got a refund that would pay for the optokey system that would make things even.

What a bunch of Bullsheiße.
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TOS
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Re: Just bought a Model D on eBay...

Post by TOS » Thu Mar 03, 2016 6:25 pm

Hi Tony,

I have the MIDI version of Opto-Key tested, boxed, and ready to ship if you want that version.

Email me at [email protected]

Chris
This Old Synth, the new home of Synthfool's Opto-Key project.
www.thisoldsynth.com

Spumoni
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Re: Just bought a Model D on eBay...

Post by Spumoni » Fri Mar 04, 2016 1:51 am

Analog Lab contacted me and apologized for the screw up, plus they offered to split the cost of the opto-key, and install it for free. I am very grateful they are attempting to correct this problem. Not sure if I want to send this thing out again, especially since I already took it apart and sent the cabinet out!

Alain you were very right about the modulation wheel - totally user error.

EricK
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Re: Just bought a Model D on eBay...

Post by EricK » Fri Mar 04, 2016 2:04 am

Never hurts asking them to pay for the whole optokey system. To ME, that would make things even.

Then, you might find in a couple of months that you have to replace pots they cut open or something stupid like that.

You probably added well over a grand to the cost of your minimoog without the optokey.

I'm really sorry you had to experience this. Once everything gets fixed that gem is going to shine and you will forget about this ordeal.

Thanks for keeping us updated.
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leohuppert
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Re: Just bought a Model D on eBay...

Post by leohuppert » Tue Mar 08, 2016 4:00 pm

Spumoni wrote:Just got an update from Analog Lab - they got everything working much better, had to cut open the pots the clean them which helped tremendously. They were having issues with the key contacts, and had to remove the board a second time and solder each and every contact. He said for some reason, the existing solder was not reacting like normal. But now that it's entirely been redone they think it will last a long time. Hopefully there won't be many more issues...

I also ordered a new Calzone Case - considering they're made to order, it came surprising fast. I'm impressed at how hefty this thing is!



Hey Spumoni, I've been following your adventure with Analog Lab closely, as I've been in contact with them regarding my own Mini (#8871). Actually I was about to bring it over to them today (I'm within an hour of them), until I ran across your posts. Overall, do you feel like you're comfortable with the outcome of all that? Do you think you'd recommend them? Obviously every synth's issues are unique. I'm really itching to get it back to gig readiness, but it's a real important decision who to trust with the work

Also, I'm curious about your calzone case. I built a case for mine from scratch in the 80s but that's vanished over the decades, so I need a new case. Can you share any info on that as well?

Thanks man. hope your mini's happy...

Leo
GEAR
'74 Fender Rhodes Suitcase 88, '77 Minimoog Model D, '83 Moog Source, '85 Yamaha KX5 controller, '87 Yamaha G2 ac grand, Kurzweil PC-88, Roland SC-88 Sound Canvas. Plus 2 uprights and 5 electric basses. Need. More. Stuff.

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