a new polyphonic Moog

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otnotig
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a new polyphonic Moog

Post by otnotig » Tue Sep 22, 2015 1:16 am

i dream of a new polyphonic Moog synth based on the Sub37 layout but with 8 notes of polyphony and a 5 octave aftertouch sensitive keyboard...

adding dedicated buttons for absolutelly every function and maybe a full multieffect section that would include the wonderfull PolyMoog's resonators....

also maybe a polyphonic sequencer where voices could be assigned to diferent timbres (multitimbral...)

anyway the board should be as beautifully filled with buttons on all it's surface like the Sub37

ah...dreams...

MacAquinas
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Re: a new polyphonic Moog

Post by MacAquinas » Tue Sep 22, 2015 10:31 am

I know you are just daydreaming out loud but it got me thinking...

If Moog ever made a poly again it would have to cost way more than a Voyager or who buy a mono from them after that for more money or the same as a poly. So what would it cost..5K,6,more?

People hoped the iPad Pro would also run OS X, but that would never happen as long as they are still selling so many premium priced laptops, the same applies here I think. Do you intentionally make your own products seem obsolete?

I think analog is wasted on polyphonic and best experienced and appreciated in mono, digital is the way to go for polyphonic. You want 8 voices? How about 128 or 256 or more? An analog poly costs many times more and has far less options and control and voices ...and sounds about the same. Dave Smith and Bob Moog and others learned that by going out of business. Dave Smith recoiled in horror whenever anyone asked him about VCO's the last several years, but then he caved in and made the Prophet-6 ( half the voices of his previous release Prophet-12) tried to cash in or stop people from asking? He knows, I don't. I think the sales did not match the online 100% free chatter, never went to backorder or out of stock like the Sub37 kept doing for almost a year.

I could be entirely wrong, wouldn't be the first or last time! :shock: .......just thinking out loud.
Black Minimoog Voyager XL, Sub37, Slim Phatty, Mother-32, MF-104M SD, MF-105M, MP-201, CP-251, Theremini, Animoog ;-) . Roland Fantom G8 & Integra-7, Korg MS-20

otnotig
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Re: a new polyphonic Moog

Post by otnotig » Tue Sep 22, 2015 12:03 pm

i think the prices are kept artificially high "thanks" to the glamour of a over-mytified brand name than to the reality of the actual analog parts and analog design.

parts are infinitelly smaller and cheaper to produce now than 40 years ago (i mean modern parts of course)

i don't see why a modern polyphonic Moog would be such a nono...

i'm not a purist nor a fetichist, i don't vow any mystical adoration to Moog nor even to analog

still i never had a bether polyphonic experience than with an old PolyMoog and a nice warm reverb

also not all the parts really need to be purelly analogic to still have the nice feeling of a classic Moog
envelopes, lfos and all the control can perfectly be digital, only the oscilators, filters and amplifiers really make sense to be analog

8 voices is a perfectly adecuate number for nice harmonies (6 would be a strict minimum).
128 or 256 makes no sense of course

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latigid on
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Re: a new polyphonic Moog

Post by latigid on » Tue Sep 22, 2015 4:11 pm

Trouble is, no matter what they make, there will always be complainers. Just look at flak they've copped over $10000 modulars...

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MC
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Re: a new polyphonic Moog

Post by MC » Tue Sep 22, 2015 4:17 pm

latigid on wrote:Trouble is, no matter what they make, there will always be complainers. Just look at flak they've copped over $10000 modulars...
...which quickly sold out :mrgreen:
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jsharpphoto
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Re: a new polyphonic Moog

Post by jsharpphoto » Tue Sep 22, 2015 4:54 pm

No offense to the original poster, but does anyone else get really annoyed with threads like these? It seems there's a new one every week or so. It seems kind of strange/arrogant/naive that someone would start a thread based on what I can only assume is zero synth building experience, just to tell Moog how to do their job, and how simple it would be. Like they haven't been hearing this same argument for a few decades.

Bottom line. If you want a polyphonic synth, buy a DSI. The Pro2 is 4 voice paraphonic, and it's only $2k. Why? because it kind of sounds like bleep, and the build quality matches the price tag.

Shame on me for even clicking on this link. I saw the title and thought it might actually be about an actual poly moog. Click bait, so it's annoying on two fronts. Am I the only one?
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jido-genshi
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Re: a new polyphonic Moog

Post by jido-genshi » Tue Sep 22, 2015 8:14 pm

jsharpphoto wrote:No offense to the original poster, but does anyone else get really annoyed with threads like these? It seems there's a new one every week or so. It seems kind of strange/arrogant/naive that someone would start a thread based on what I can only assume is zero synth building experience, just to tell Moog how to do their job, and how simple it would be. Like they haven't been hearing this same argument for a few decades.

Bottom line. If you want a polyphonic synth, buy a DSI. The Pro2 is 4 voice paraphonic, and it's only $2k. Why? because it kind of sounds like bleep, and the build quality matches the price tag.

Shame on me for even clicking on this link. I saw the title and thought it might actually be about an actual poly moog. Click bait, so it's annoying on two fronts. Am I the only one?
Nope, you are not the only one. I agree 100%.

Also, I wrote what turned out to be almost an "essay" on what it actually takes to create a new synth product, over on that other slutty forum (see the thread about the Roland Boutique synths, page 35, search for genshi.) It was to squash those comments where people say "Why can't they just add a simple cheap chip to add 4 more voices" or "add a chip to make it analog, it's got to be cheaper now than it was 40 years ago". I explain in detail, why it's not as simple as most people think; even from the very first step, before the design/development stage. Many on that forum say it's worth the read... some even say it enlighten them on the subject!

EricK
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Re: a new polyphonic Moog

Post by EricK » Tue Sep 22, 2015 9:26 pm

I disagree. Part of Moog's success is due to the feedback they get from their customers. We have a right to petition for Moog to make what it is we desire. It's part of giving Moog a chance to give us what we want before we are left with no recourse but to spend our money elsewhere.

Otnotig will get his poly in the end but if it has digital oscs, would that be a basis for complaint?

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jsharpphoto
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Re: a new polyphonic Moog

Post by jsharpphoto » Tue Sep 22, 2015 10:36 pm

Feedback is great, but that's not what this is. This is a wish list to Santa, with no regard to what is possible for a company like moog. I think 99% of the people that make these lists of criteria wouldn't invest in the polyphonic synth because it will certainly be "too expensive". if you really want a polyphonic moog, polychain them. It's simple enough to do. Th minitaurs are great for this, and cheap enough that you can start with a couple and add on as you go.
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otnotig
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Re: a new polyphonic Moog

Post by otnotig » Wed Sep 23, 2015 1:10 am

as i said, i'm not a purist, as far as the result still have the classic Moog sound

from smooth silky strings to brightly dynamic brasses with heart-crusching filters and all the paraphernalia to crush the sound at will

of course there will always be those who will be offended if ever the sacred purity of analog is tainted by any sinful digital toughts

digital oscilators wouldn't be a sacrilege for me, i'm totally for the hibridation of good technologies,

even bring in granulation and modal synthesis, why not, but please make it polyphonic, widelly versatile, alive and dynamic and with the Moog touch.

there is an absurde over population of monophonic synths that are just the repetitions of the same crap once and again

seeing how quiclky ultra expensive vintage poly-synth are sold on ebay it is evident that there is a market for that

there will always be those who are willing to pay a price and those who don't,

it doesn't mean it's bether for something expensive to not exist

also i see there will be people offended even by the idea of people dreaming...

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DonutDude
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Re: a new polyphonic Moog

Post by DonutDude » Wed Sep 23, 2015 4:20 am

Quite a few years ago I wrote a letter to Moog Music asking for a cheaper version of the Voyager. I explained that I had owned a Moog Rogue in the past and was searching for that authentic Moog sound once again. I wrote that I could not afford the price of a Voyager and was considering the purchase of a Creamware Minimax. I like to think that my letter, in some small way, contributed to the release of the Little Phatty.

It is important for us to provide Moog with our input and desires, because they will listen.

If it wasn't for this post I would not have been aware that you can poly-chain Minitaurs. But then I have to ask: If that is the case, why doesn't Moog make a 4 voice synth for the approximate price of 4 Minitaurs? I think it has more to do with production space, company (monophonic?) policy, or whatever, more than it has to do with what it would cost the consumer.

EricK
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Re: a new polyphonic Moog

Post by EricK » Wed Sep 23, 2015 11:22 am

I totally forgot to extend a welcome to the forum, Otnotig.

I have been hearing that they were already developing one since before the release of the Sub Phatty. It's just a matter of time. Moog proved with their $6k guitars, and $10k Voyagers and $150k Modular that they can do whatever they want and aren't afraid to put a high price point out there. But really, if you want polyphonics then just go vintage. There are plenty of Polymoogs to be had if that's what you want rather than waiting for Moog to make one and then maybe it has what you want on it.


Genshi's article on GS was excellent.

I'll fully admit to drawing/submitting mock-ups with no idea of the engineering costs involved. I have needs as a synthesist which arose from vacuums in their product line. There are entire threads here "What should Moog make next" for example. In that thread you can see many suggestions, several of which have been built by Moog over the years. But other suggestions such as a Sequencer module in a VX351 sized enclosure were jumped on by Doepfer with the Dark Time. And Moog never completed their MoogerFooger synth with Envelopes and a VCA module (probably for reasons mentioned in Genshi's article) but that forced me to look elsewhere even though I really didn't want to. That resulted in purchases from Dotcom which led to purchases from Mos-Lab. That is money that I would have gladly given Moog had they made what I wanted them to make. And this continues because they won't offer individual modules (probably because of reasons Genshi mentioned).

So there's nothing wrong in my opinion with trying to support a company by encouraging product development, but if they don't listen for whatever reason, then people like Dave Smith, or the modular cottage industry stand to benefit.


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megavoice
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Re: a new polyphonic Moog

Post by megavoice » Wed Sep 23, 2015 1:24 pm

.........................................MUST a new full analog polyphonic "Moog"-Synth carry absolutely the original Moog-brand ?............................................ :wink:
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DonutDude
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Re: a new polyphonic Moog

Post by DonutDude » Wed Sep 23, 2015 2:01 pm

You lost me there megavoice.

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Vince Ascoli
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Re: a new polyphonic Moog

Post by Vince Ascoli » Wed Sep 23, 2015 5:13 pm

megavoice clearly knows something we don't know...is Behringer re-making the Memorymoog? Korg, maybe? :D Actually, off/on-topic, who owns the intellectual property of the MM? Our current Moog Music, or somebody else?
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