RE: Mini / Multi - Home Recording (FX)?

[atomicsynth]

I agree with most of what you said atomicsynth. Except maybe the last part about comparing to a commercial CD as reference. There are certainly mountains of differences between them. And some of them are certainly not worth comparing to, production wise, because they sound frankly crappy (not the music, but the sound). Most of the recent "remastering" of classic albums also suffer from "sound demolition" with complete disappearance of nuances. It's the compressor/limiter brick wall, that loudness war that keeps making victims.

Paul, learn to trust your own ears. That's what atomicsynth is suggesting, and that's what I do too. And I use the theory of KIS (Keep It Simple). Don't get too involved with EQ, Effects, Compress

Hi Alien, Good afternoon and thanks for your substantive reply to my post, very appreciated. I do think using commercial recordings as reference is a very good thing to do, so we disagree on that point.

There are many harsh sounding commercial CD's out there but I listen to most anything in my collection as references because there's always something to be noted.

The loudness war isn't ending, regretfully. They can't ruin vinyl with CD loudness because the needle would jump the groove, hence the RIAA curve is more...pleasing? Also, masters for vinyl don't employ the extreme tone curves present on essentially all rock and pop CD's.

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I've removed as of today, June 21, the formerly linked clip because I had said I would only have it here for a finite duration. This postscript is only to clarify I did take it down.

I'm also now fully immersed, having now begun my Memorymoog mods, and will likely not be involved in threads here for some time as I have a great deal of work to do.

Best wishes and take care.

[thealien666]

I'm listening to your sample (thanks for the link), and to be honest, I don't particularly enjoy that type of sound (nothing to do with the music). Too much compressor, too much EQ, makes everything seems to turn into some sort of auditory mush.

I understand now why you would suggest comparing to a commercial CD as a reference.

If you must compare to a commercial CD, may I suggest you have a listen at some Phil Collins and Genesis (the years that Hugh Padgham, who has won many awards as a sound engineer, was producer and also the audio engineer on some of their albums). Everything is crisp and clear, with lots of punch on all of his recordings. There's lots of effects on there sometimes in his work too (the now well-known gated reverb on drums effect to name one), but all used wisely.

Or better yet, the Black Album from Metallica, produced by Bob Rock with excellent recording engineer Randy Staub. There's perfect (too perfect some might say ?) sound engineering.

[monsterjazzlicks]

Hi,

Thank you for the replies of recent. I am working my way thru them.

Here (below) are the 4 x MULTIMOOG recordings I made in CUBASE yesterday (for the ears of anyone interested). They were recorded in DIRECTLY and DRY using the OUTPUT on the MULTI of -10dB (so the LOW out). As for any recording, I used my STEINBERG CI2+ soundcard (a simple 2 x IN, 2 x OUT device). And only using 1 x IN (ie in MONO). EXPORTING = 44.1kHz.

The BASS and LEAD patch is the SAME (except for OCTAVE alterations). The FILTER and OSC patch are also the SAME (again with OCTAVE alterations [which are also modified in real time]).

These are just a couple of ideas I have had bouncing around. Admittedly, and as will be apparent, they are nothing particularly earth shattering and compare as somewhat being very much pedestrian compared to the UPLOADS I have heard by this forums more profession MOOG-ist's. But In any case, I don't want to be judged on musically here, but rather I am seeking possibilities of what FX and EQ could be added to enhance these recording snippets. Then, upon receiving a little guidance, I can use the advice to practice/experiment applying any sonic applications recommended.

They have been UPLOADED to PICOSONG as per kindly recommended by a fellow forum member. They are in MP3 format because as WAV files, they exceeded the size limit. Should be good/clear enough though as a demonstration purely to show where I am at so to speak. They are roughly under a minute long each:

LEAD: http://picosong.com/g5vF

BASS: http://picosong.com/g5WK

LEAD & BASS: http://picosong.com/g5v2

S/H FILTER: http://picosong.com/gLsC

S/H OSC: http://picosong.com/gLs2

Multi_Cubase

I very much appreciate the continued professional help and advice . . .

Paul

[atomicsynth]

Hi Alien,

Thanks and take care.

[DonutDude]

Paul,

Sonically they sound good to me as is.

[monsterjazzlicks]

Thanks DD,

Sonically they sound good to me as is.

LMAO!

Paul

[DonutDude]

I'm serious Paul. I enjoyed the pureness of the sounds and couldn't think of any EQ or reverb or whatever that would make it sound better. FX would just make it sound different. So It all comes down to what you are trying to convey musically.

[monsterjazzlicks]

DD,

I'm serious Paul. I enjoyed the pureness of the sounds and couldn't think of any EQ or reverb or whatever that would make it sound better. FX would just make it sound different. So It all comes down to what you are trying to convey musically.

Ok, I appreciate your honesty here.

I am just sat here thinking: "surely it can't be THAT simple!". lol

But seriously, maybe it is OK as is. I am sure you will have experienced that when you listen to your OWN work and then play it to somebody ELSE, they always seem to notice DIFFERENT things to what you did! And that YOUR stuff will very often sound DIFFERENT to ME than it does to YOU! Also, one can be very self-conscious about ones on work and this can be a bit of a barrier to break through at times.

Cheers,

Paul

[thealien666]

Hi Alien,

Thanks and take care.

We can agree to disagree, right ? That's what makes a forum interesting, members with different ideas an opinions, even if we don't always agree on all of them.

You too atomicsynth, take care.

[thealien666]

Paul, DonutDude is right. It sounds okay for primary tracks. I would personally only add a slight amount of reverb to the final mix (tracks mixed together as a master). The key word being "slight".

But that's it.

Your direct recording technique is already very good. No clipping, very low noise floor, no distortion.

Only my humble opinion on it.

Alain.

[monsterjazzlicks]

Thanks Alien,

DonutDude is right. It sounds okay for primary tracks. I would personally only add a slight amount of reverb to the final mix (tracks mixed together as a master). The key word being "slight". But that's it. Your direct recording technique is already very good. No clipping, very low noise floor, no distortion.

I think in general (when I have SEQUENCED stuff on the KORG M1 in the past [using the INTERNAL sounds)), I ALWAYS left the BASS track DRY. But I think you mean like an UMBRELLA FX over BOTH the LEAD and the BASS (and anything else such as the S/H which may be LAYERED over the top)?

I kind of just used my common sense to set the LEVELS in CUBASE. Though I was not sure about whether or not to use the HI or LO OUTPUTS on the MULTIMOOG? I seemed to get a strong enough SIGNAL from the latter and so naturally I stuck with that! The VOLUME of the MULTIMOOG was set high at NUMBER 9. Though of course the VOLUME can massively fluctuate (as it does on the S/H FILTER track) when opening/closing FREQ's etc.

Thank you,

Paul

[monsterjazzlicks]

Hi,

I would personally only add a slight amount of reverb to the final mix (tracks mixed together as a master). The key word being "slight".

But if you were creating a song in the genre of (don't know what the hell you would call it other than [say]) ELECTRONIC, then FX-wise, (I would say) REVERB risks the obvious danger of mushing everything up, and DELAY would only really work (I would think) if it was SYNCED to the TEMPO of the S/H?!

Correct me if I am wrong here by all means.

Ta,

Paul

[atomicsynth]

We can agree to disagree, right ? That's what makes a forum interesting, members with different ideas an opinions, even if we don't always agree on all of them.

Absolutely!!

[thealien666]

...Correct me if I am wrong here by all means.

I don't think that there is a right or wrong answer when it comes to effects. It's like seasoning in a recipe. It all depends on what you want to achieve, and the means to get there. Most often it's a trial and error process until you are satisfied with the results.

Sure, a delay is also a good effect to use with synths. It can even take the place of a reverb with short delay times and some repeats. Again, it all depends on your goal. Does it sound good to YOU, that's the only important thing. The only thing that really matters.

Alain.

[thealien666]

While we're on the subject, here's a good example of what I did recently, and usually what I do.

https://soundcloud.com/thealien666/fun- ... n-minimoog

In that piece, which was all improvised one track at a time starting with the "FM" timbre, that track has a lot of reverb on it, and some slight timed delay too in there, because I wanted to create a "strange" alien type sound, but still keep it musical.

The second track was the bass line, which is almost dry (only 10% reverb level on this one) because I wanted it to sound much closer than the "FM" track.

The third track was the Electric Piano of the Alesis Ion, which is panned more to the left, with medium level reverb but shorter time than on the other tracks, because I wanted to give the impression of a band with the piano player to one side of the stage.

And the final track was the Minimoog Lead, which is using the well-known Minimoog D feedback trick to get that sweet distorted lead sound out of it, with only a slight reverb there also (same level as on the piano track but with a longer reverberation time).

And there you have it. It might not sound musically appealing to everyone (that's okay), but sound wise I think it's fairly decent, don't you think ? Any comments ?

Alain.