Why does this Modular sound so incredible ?

[rarecomponent]

I was pretty stunned to say the least when I heard this Modular. So why doesn't my clone Modular sound like this ?
To me this is really how a Moog Modular should sound..total magic.
I can only assume that its the output monitors their using (I think a pretty sophisticated powered output feeding 15" speakers" ?) the percussion is knock out.
if not this, then there's something sadly lacking in my lovingly built Modular clone......I need some experienced opinions to help me get some sleep.

http://youtu.be/zoD4eGvB1V8

[thealien666]

If your modular doesn't have a spring reverb, maybe you could start there...?

[noddyspuncture]

Did you build actual 'Moog Clone' modules to make up your diy system... or some other 'kits'...?

Cheers,
Tom

[synthguy]

Sounds great!

Also sounds like the keyboard could use a new set of key bushings...seemed sort of clacky, although it's often hard to tell with a camera mic and their built- in compression.

Liked the BSS sequence...

[rarecomponent]

Yes ..i have spring reverb.
Tom..my modular was built over a 20 year period on/off ...using vintage components as per original when located. Each module checked over and over and tweaked for authentic build as to original or as close as possible. I have three 901b's and three 921b's...a 904a and 904 abc plus a full compliment of all other modules.
But no Moog type keyboard..I'm running keyboard midi controller + CV convector.

The modular in the video has powerful percussion ...is this due to the outboard powered monitor and large speakers enhancing the overall sound? Can you get this type of sound running a modular thru a mixer directly into a PC sound card? I suspect it's the power of the live speakers (aka guitar thru powered amp .)..rather than
direct into mixer.
But I only played one Moog 3C a long time ago, I've no genuine Moog to compare..

[thealien666]

I heard mostly input saturation and audio distorsion from that amp, with natural room reverberation.
The "percussive" sound you hear is mostly the mechanical keyboard "thump" from worn bushings.
And don't forget that this was recorded with the camera mic, also.

If that Moog 55 would have been recorded directly from its output, it would have sounded much different.

[MC]

Really tired of YT "demos" of gear recorded with a cheesy camera mic. When I did my OBSX YT demos, I recorded simultaneously to digital stereo and sync'd to video later. A bit of work, but you really hear what it is SUPPOSED to sound like.

[noddyspuncture]

And you say it doesn't sound right...?

Did you calibrate everything up to spec as detailed in the Moog service manual...?
I am about to build myself a 901a and a 901b. I have all the parts I need so I am interested.
But then again, I do have an R.A.Modular to compare my build to...!

I cannot see how putting the 55 on the video through decent amplifier and speakers could make it sound 'better' because, as already mentioned, it was recorded on the camera's microphone.

So just how 'bad' are your modules? Could you make a Soundcloud recording for us to hear?

By the way - what do you mean by that Modular having 'percussion'...?

Cheers,
Tom

Yes ..i have spring reverb.
Tom..my modular was built over a 20 year period on/off ...using vintage components as per original when located. Each module checked over and over and tweaked for authentic build as to original or as close as possible. I have three 901b's and three 921b's...a 904a and 904 abc plus a full compliment of all other modules.
But no Moog type keyboard..I'm running keyboard midi controller + CV convector.

The modular in the video has powerful percussion ...is this due to the outboard powered monitor and large speakers enhancing the overall sound? Can you get this type of sound running a modular thru a mixer directly into a PC sound card? I suspect it's the power of the live speakers (aka guitar thru powered amp .)..rather than
direct into mixer.
But I only played one Moog 3C a long time ago, I've no genuine Moog to compare..

[rarecomponent]

Thanks for your replies/opinions...
I guess it is the way the modular was recorded and natural compression etc
The keyboard rattle did add to the overall sound also ..on listening again there is a lot of distortion perhaps a natural " fuzz box" ? It did add to " heavy metal " timbre !
I know Emerson sometimes used a fuzz box with his Hammond. But I can get percussive sound with electric guitar thru a suitable amp ...and by percussion I mean the drum like sound at the beginning of each note. I've never run my modular thru a stage amp but I'm now guessing I would get a similar sound to the video. The distortion of the recording certainly has an effect.

Also ..Tom...yes I've calibrated to the best of my ability the only question being the 907 as I wound my own inductors...that's all a bit iffy. Just to make it clear my modular does sound "right" like every modular I've heard..it's just that the one in the video has this unique sound which all in all is probably due to the method of recording. Good luck with your 901's ...if only someone could come up with a cure for the drift and tuning.

[thealien666]

Good luck with your 901's ...if only someone could come up with a cure for the drift and tuning.

Someone already did in 1972: Robert A. Moog, with the 921A and B.

[ColorForm2113]

Probably because they used a better quality of wood in the cases to help increase the sustain and improve the resonance

[noddyspuncture]

I actually do really, really prefer the sound of those 901's.... therefore I am glad mine has them.

As for drift and tuning... well, OK there might be *some* drift - but I have found a way around this. With the help of Terry (CZ Rider) who also posts here.

Basically the 901's don't drift regarding actual tuning. It is the "Scale" that drifts... that is the stretch or compression of the keyboard span.
I have fitted a small knob on the front of my 901a's. It basically compensates for this 'drift' using a percentage of the CV of the current note being played - which is always pretty small - so I use this knob to compensates really easily for any Scale drift. I can dial in a small off-set.

Remember, I have used my Modular live on stage, in different venues - under hot lights and in sweaty crowds, without any problems. A quick tweak between numbers - if needed, (so it's really mainly a check) and it's ready to go.

I reckon about 20 seconds is all I need... and as it's an ELP tribute I play in, they are expecting some messing and tuning anyway...

My R.A.Modular only came with four 901's and I need another so I am going to make my own. It's next on the 'to do' list...!

Cheers,
Tom

Good luck with your 901's ...if only someone could come up with a cure for the drift and tuning.

Someone already did in 1972: Robert A. Moog, with the 921A and B.

[CZ Rider]

Another not well documented issue with the 901 was the early ones up to about late 1967, used a diode string of four germanium paired diodes in the current source. (8 diodes total.) When you hear stories about the early Carlos SOB days where a slight breeze in the direction of the 901's would send them wildly out of tune, this was the early ones. Bob would make a revision to the 901 using a CA3019 diode array in place of the germainum diode string. This would certainly improve tuning over those early 1965-67 901 oscillators. So the latter revision 901's from 1968-1973 were not as temperature sensitive. Many seem to believe all 901 oscillators are the same as those early versions, and while those stories may be true, not all 901's were made in 1965-67.

To the OP, perhaps it is the patch that makes that percussive sound you seek. There are many ways to get a more percussive tone from the 911 envelope generators. I generally use three 911's with one very fast patched into an extra 902 VCA or the 904 filter. Two 911 envelopes into the 904 filter, with the one very fast is one way to do it. Also, since the 911's are DIY those 1 MEG pots used on the originals were audio taper. Using 1 MEG linear pots will make that fast area tough to dial in. (Just a thought?)

I recently posted a demo of the 907 filter bank on Youtube. The patch is using three 911's with one super fast. That one is patched into a 902A Bandpass filter clone I made, but can hear the sharp percussive effect of the 911 envelope.
Youtube 907 FFB demo
Might have more to do with patching technique than anything else?

[latigid on]

What sounds "good" is entirely subjective and influenced by our various biases. Old electronics had looser tolerances and worse noise specs, but the designs were completed within these boundaries. So the built-in distortion or filtering is very much part of the sound. Also, the ageing components will have an influence. Look at the TTSH project: some say it's nothing like a 2600, some say it sounds like a new 2600 would have in 1976.

People might think Eurorack modular sounds tinny because the panels are grey aluminium. Whereas a Moog sounds better because of the big jacks, wood and metal construction. Maybe it's that often Eurorack is a collection of manufacturers, while Modcan or COTK is a single company where all the modules are designed with each other in mind.

OP, perhaps your clone doesn't sound the same because you are missing inside engineering knowledge that made early Moogs what they are.

[unfiltered37]

What sounds "good" is entirely subjective and influenced by our various biases. Old electronics had looser tolerances and worse noise specs, but the designs were completed within these boundaries. So the built-in distortion or filtering is very much part of the sound. Also, the ageing components will have an influence. Look at the TTSH project: some say it's nothing like a 2600, some say it sounds like a new 2600 would have in 1976.

People might think Eurorack modular sounds tinny because the panels are grey aluminium. Whereas a Moog sounds better because of the big jacks, wood and metal construction. Maybe it's that often Eurorack is a collection of manufacturers, while Modcan or COTK is a single company where all the modules are designed with each other in mind.

OP, perhaps your clone doesn't sound the same because you are missing inside engineering knowledge that made early Moogs what they are.

It's been scientifically proven that the color of a bag of chips affects the way it tastes. All of our senses are melded together. Placebo effect also is quite powerful. A scientist studying placebo effect was able to activate his painkiller receptors by causing himself pain somehow and injecting a saline solution. So placebo works even when you know it is placebo. Bright colored sugar pills have a stimulant effect, and dull colored ones have a downer effect. And homeopathic medicine, while just placebo, works as well.