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Minimoog Model D: CV control options?

Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 1:40 pm
by tonewheeltom
I recently had my Model D refurbished and had the non-MIDI Opto-Key installed. I also got my first Mac and have been familiarizing myself with Logic Pro X. I have an Apogee Quartet interface, and an old MOTU UltrLite v1.

I am a live player and haven't done much analog or digital sequencing. I have the option of upgrading the Opto-Key for MIDI for pitch control.

My main question to the forum is what my options would be in taking advantage of the CV inputs on the Model D via software and hardware.

I'd like to play the Mini in real time while tracking, but adding the following features:

Sample and hold for filter and/or pitch, synced to Logic tempo
Filter and/or Osc modulation, synced to Logic tempo
External input filter modulation, synced to Logic tempo.

It seems like the CP-251 would be really fun, but I wouldn't be able to sync it. I looked into MOTU Volta, but it is 32-bit only. The MP-201 looks great, but prices for this are steep for me.

Would I be able to do what I want with Expert Sleepers Silent Way? Also, I have no CV controllers at all right now, so I am a newbie when it comes to this.

Re: Minimoog Model D: CV control options?

Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 3:42 pm
by Vsyevolod
Bite the bullet, buy the MP-201. A seriously under-understood pedal.

Stephen




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Re: Minimoog Model D: CV control options?

Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 4:05 pm
by thealien666
A few things first: the MIDI implementation on the Opto-Key is limited to "Note On" and "Note Off" messages, and only across the 44 notes range of the Minimoog D. According to what Kevin had once told me about it, the MIDI option was only an afterthought during the Opto-Key project and was never meant to be an exhaustive or complete MIDI implementation. It was simply easy to add it in this very basic format.

Second, the Ext Control inputs for OSC and S-Trigger on a Mini are directly connected to the boards inside. The result is that the signals coming from the keyboard (pitch CV and S-Trigger) will offset and override the ones coming from the External Inputs. In other words, the pitch CV from the keyboard (or Opto-Key in your case and mine) will be added to the pitch CV from the outside.

Moreover, the S-Trigger signal will override the ones coming from the External Input because they are in fact connected together internally. So if you press and hold down a note on the keyboard whilst you're sending S-Trigger signal form the outside, the keyboard one will have priority and only one trigger will be heard, masking all others, until you release that held note.

As for the MP-201 suggested by Stephen, it's a really neat pedal but it's a discontinued Moog product and might be hard to find used and, as you said rather expensive now.

As for using Silent Way, I can't help you much there since I don't really know that product, and use only hardware for modulation sources.

Maybe someone else ?

Re: Minimoog Model D: CV control options?

Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 4:56 pm
by unfiltered37
MP-201 changed and improved my model D dramatically. The "gas pedal" is the most expressive I have ever played, and it stays on the filter CV. Having both hands free and being able to sweep the filter precisely and smoothly while doing pitch bends and such is incredibly expressive. I find it better than using the knob, because it can be much slower or faster, and you can set the range. Plus that's just one function, though that's worth the cost IMO. You also got three other CV outs, with anything you want, even sequencing from your computer. Along with the cp-251, it's a powerhouse, and probably the only CV processing I will ever need for my setup.

Re: Minimoog Model D: CV control options?

Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 10:42 am
by mrfett
I'd love a sync-able option as well. The CP-201 though is definitely a fantastic accessory for the Model D. I just finished a track with the Model D and sync'd the CP-201's LFO up by ear. I was thinking there might be a way to use an envelope follower as a sync... maybe run a kick drum to a Moogerfooger that can then send the envelope out to the CP-201? I've been meaning to try this but haven't gotten there yet.

The MIDI upgrade for the Opto-Key is awesome btw. I've heard Reason (the Propellerheads software) can quantize audio, making MIDI redundant for some, but I haven't tried it yet (I've been back to Logic recently). I like being able to track notes and then twiddle knobs separately. Of course in the end, for this latest song anyway, I ended up playing everything live, changing the glide and decay settings while I was playing, but it's helpful to have options, especially when "composing" (at least the way I do it lol). I especially love being able to use all the cool iOS sequencers with the Model D. You do have to be mindful of only sending notes within the supported range, but I don't find it to be a deal breaker at all.

Re: Minimoog Model D: CV control options?

Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 1:31 pm
by tonewheeltom
Thanks everybody. You've given me things to explore and research.

I did manage to snag an MP-201 at your urging - it's on its way. The MIDI sync and real time performance controls look like a must for the model D, and I'm hoping it solves some issues I've been wanting to take care of with controlling my Muse Receptor live.

What I'm still a little unclear about is how limited or unlimited the Minimoog D is with CV control. It looks like I'll now be able to sync the MP-201 LFO to a MIDI clock from Logic to control the model D's three CV inputs. Also, with Opto-Key upgraded to MIDI, I'd be able to do note on/off MIDI sequences.

The relationship between the OSC CV input and what's played on the keyboard makes more sense (thanks!), but I'd love to know more about how iOS sequencers and a plugin like the Silent Way suite works on a model D as opposed to the modulars.

Re: Minimoog Model D: CV control options?

Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 7:37 pm
by unfiltered37
You can do note on/off with the mp-201, with the mini's s-trig input. You have to get a special cinch jones connector (although it wouldn't be that difficult to macgyver one if you are crafty) and make a simple gate to s-trig circuit, which requires soldering and a few easy to get parts. i found the 1/4" to cinch jones on ebay. You will have to sacrifice one of the four channels for note on/off, but only while sequencing.

http://www.doepfer.de/faq/gen_faq.htm

The mp-201 will sync to midi clock, I am pretty sure. Silent way is a CV program, so I think you need a special interface and will not add much functionality, since the MP-201 will take care of your 3 CV inputs. Make sure to update the software to the latest version on the MP, because the old version does not have midi to CV I think. It takes a while to learn all the functions, but that's a good thing, it is a very deep pedal.

Re: Minimoog Model D: CV control options?

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 1:45 pm
by tonewheeltom
unfiltered37 wrote:You can do note on/off with the mp-201, with the mini's s-trig input. You have to get a special cinch jones connector (although it wouldn't be that difficult to macgyver one if you are crafty) and make a simple gate to s-trig circuit, which requires soldering and a few easy to get parts. i found the 1/4" to cinch jones on ebay. You will have to sacrifice one of the four channels for note on/off, but only while sequencing.

http://www.doepfer.de/faq/gen_faq.htm

The mp-201 will sync to midi clock, I am pretty sure. Silent way is a CV program, so I think you need a special interface and will not add much functionality, since the MP-201 will take care of your 3 CV inputs. Make sure to update the software to the latest version on the MP, because the old version does not have midi to CV I think. It takes a while to learn all the functions, but that's a good thing, it is a very deep pedal.

Thanks. Do you think this cable will do?:
http://www.synthesizers.com/qmvs.html
The other three cables would just need to be unbalanced instrument cables?

I'm looking forward to the MP-201. I looked into Logic and it will definitely sync with the pedal.

My next step will be making my Model D even more modular with either a FreqBox or Ring Modulator! :mrgreen:

Re: Minimoog Model D: CV control options?

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 2:55 pm
by unfiltered37
Yep, that will do it. And yes, 1/4" TS cables are fine.

Re: Minimoog Model D: CV control options?

Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 1:36 pm
by tonewheeltom
I'm loving the MP-201, I finally received it yesterday. The model D responds really well to it, and that's just messing around with filter sweeps and the additional LFOs. With a guitar in the external input and sending a random LFO to the filter CV, I recreated The Who's Relay instantly.

I can't wait to use it with both my Receptor and Logic. Thanks everybody for twisting my arm!

Re: Minimoog Model D: CV control options?

Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 5:18 pm
by Vsyevolod
tonewheeltom wrote:My next step will be making my Model D even more modular with either a FreqBox or Ring Modulator!


My humble suggestion is to get the Ring Modulator first, then a FreqBox. Then a second Ring Modulator!

Stephen




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Re: Minimoog Model D: CV control options?

Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 10:54 pm
by tonewheeltom
Vsyevolod wrote:
tonewheeltom wrote:My next step will be making my Model D even more modular with either a FreqBox or Ring Modulator!


My humble suggestion is to get the Ring Modulator first, then a FreqBox. Then a second Ring Modulator!

Stephen




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I just got the Ring Modulator today, used for a fair price. It's a lot more musical than I imagined - I've only used digital emulations before. I haven't even used the MP-201 with it yet, just the output of the Minimoog into the MF-102's input. Sending the Carrier Out into the model D's OSC CV input yielded some cool results, too.

The FreqBox is on its way...

Re: Minimoog Model D: CV control options?

Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 6:26 pm
by Vsyevolod
Great, now you just need a MF-103 Phaser and a MF-108 Cluster Flux to complete (sorta) your sonic arsenal. Mwaaaaa Haaaaaa Haaaaaa...

Merry Christmas!

Stephen




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Re: Minimoog Model D: CV control options?

Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 7:40 pm
by a_i_r
Hi, I am looking for a MIDI to CV converter for my model d, multimoog, prodigy, rogue (not to mention my voyager, slimphatty and subphatty). I am hoping you could share the specs of the CV interfaces and recommend any item that also supports the negative voltages requird for the VCF and VCA.

Re: Minimoog Model D: CV control options?

Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 12:23 pm
by a_i_r
What I mean by specs is the actual voltage range that allows for full sweeping of the specific circuit (i.e. filter, amplifier).

Thanks all.

I am considering this unit:
http://www.edv-technik-ts.de/html/muc-800.html