Help newbie decide: Voayger vs Sub37

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BorisYeltsin
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Help newbie decide: Voayger vs Sub37

Post by BorisYeltsin » Sun Nov 09, 2014 6:39 am

Hi. I am new to Moog, and I want to buy an instrument which I can play with for many years to come. I need help to decide between buying a Voyager or a Sub37.

I have tried both hands-on. To me it seems like the Sub37 got more functions than the Voyager, especially when it comes to LFO routing and adjusting. The Sub37 seems to be a more hands-on experience than the Voyager. Also, the filter knob on the Voyager is slower to move around than the filter knob on the Sub37, and the pitch wheel on the Voyager is harder to move and control and not so smooth to move up and down as the pitch wheel on the Sub37.

The Voyager got three oscillators and the Sub37 got two + sub. The Voyager also got a dual low-pass mode.

I want the best, but to me - who is a newbie - the best seems to be the Sub37.

Could you please explain to me what the Voyager is capable of, which the Sub37 cannot do - and the other way around?

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MC
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Re: Help newbie decide: Voayger vs Sub37

Post by MC » Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:59 am

You've never owned a car before and you wanna drive like Dale Earnhardt?

I'd say start out with the Sub 37. The Voyager actually has more options under the hood but could be overwhelming to a newcomer.

Those two are the best moogs now, each can do sounds the other can't. I wouldn't focus on the best, I would focus on the one most appropriate.
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Re: Help newbie decide: Voayger vs Sub37

Post by Disarm D'arcy » Sun Nov 09, 2014 12:01 pm

MC wrote:The Voyager actually has more options under the hood but could be overwhelming to a newcomer.
Seconded. My personal favorite is the Little Phatty. I believe a lot of newcomers to the synth world find it easy to understand and program due to it's very clear and well thought of interface.

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thealien666
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Re: Help newbie decide: Voayger vs Sub37

Post by thealien666 » Sun Nov 09, 2014 12:36 pm

Since you've tried both, I'd say follow your gut feeling...
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JnGd
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Re: Help newbie decide: Voayger vs Sub37

Post by JnGd » Sun Nov 09, 2014 12:38 pm

Hi, I'm almost a 3 years newbie myself...here is what I did:

On "routing 1" picture, the red & blue squares are inputs on the back panel of the Voyager. The green circles are outputs from the VX-351 for "adding" magic to your voyage...in drawing it, it helped me to understand the Voyager's internal connections that are going to the VX-351 to be further useful as "sources".

On "routing 2" picture, use it to draw lines so you can remember your routing in many years from now...keep them in a folder. There is lots of ways as you can see, sources to destinations...I don't know about the Sub 37. Try to do the "schematic" with the Sub 37 so you can better compare both "vessels". After that you will know which one is best for you. I don't have a MIDI set-up yet.

Do read, read and read again all manuals...bon voyage, either with the Sub 37 or the Voyager.

Hope it helps you, others and me too !

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Re: Help newbie decide: Voayger vs Sub37

Post by namahshaman » Sun Nov 09, 2014 1:00 pm

It would also help to know how you'll predominantly be using your synth, either in-studio or out-gigging.

For studio or home use, it's totally up to you- based on your preference. To me, the 37 can get a lot grittier and nastier-very ballsy, but the Voyager is capable of some rich lush timbres- unmatched by any synth I've ever encountered.

For gigging, I'd highly recommend the Sub37. I gigged with a Voyager for 3 years, and recently replaced it with a Sub37 for my road rig (took the Voyager home to my little studio :wink: ). Not only does the 37 weigh less and take up less room on-stage, but the stable oscillators don't need any significant warmup time like the Voyagers (which can be an issue in certain venues with crowded lineups and pushy promoters). Also, there was always a certain amount of dread that accompanied setting my precious Voyager up on a stage in a smokey bar full of people drinking. With the 37 at less than half the price of a Voyager, I'm a little more comfortable taking it out in public, haha.

wordsdrawnigh
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Re: Help newbie decide: Voayger vs Sub37

Post by wordsdrawnigh » Sun Nov 09, 2014 2:45 pm

The Voyager, with a VX-351, has greatly expanded CV in/output options. It can do frequency modulation (which the Sub 37 can only approximate with the LFOs), and has the touchpad, a slightly longer keyboard, the third oscillator (which can be used as a modulation source, and also function as an LFO), and the stereo filter arrangement. If these aren't that important to you, I'd say go for the Sub 37.

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Re: Help newbie decide: Voayger vs Sub37

Post by EricK » Sun Nov 09, 2014 5:29 pm

MC wrote:I'd say start out with the Sub 37. The Voyager actually has more options under the hood but could be overwhelming to a newcomer.
I must disagree here. If synthesis is a passion of yours think long-term. You might wish that you had purchased the Voyager on the front end, rather than reaching the limitations of the Sub a few years from now and trying to sell it at a loss and seeking the Voyager at a later date. I agree it may be overwhelming at first, but it is nothing that you can't get over if you are passionate enough to learn synthesis.

Can anyone speak to whether or not the Voyager's controls are more precise?

When you inquire as to what the Voyager can do that the Sub-37 can't, then think about all of the CV ins and outs that the Voyager has. As of right now, the Sub 37 has no CV outs. The Voyager is an excellent controller as well as a tremendously powerful instrument. The Voyager also has much more preset memory. Then you add pot mapping and programmable sources and destinations to that, multiple keyboard triggering modes, stereo outputs, and a wider keyboard range. It's Moog's flagship instrument.

If you want to fatten up the sound of the Voyager, or sequence it, there are ways that you can do that with software/hardware sequencers or external gear such as distortion pedals that you can insert into the fx loop.

So in this respect, with the only exception being the paraphonics, the Voyager can approximate the sound and grit of the Sub-37.

If I was in the market for a Sub 37 I would wait and see what Moog is going to do with it. Currently it is in its "Tribute Edition" and Moog historically releases subsequent editions of their synths (See, Little Phatty Stage II, the Sub Phatty was outshone by the Sub 37). They might release a Sub 64 or something like that after another year or so or a rack mount version of it. The next edition of the Sub-37 may have cv outs.

The Voyager hasn't changed at all in several years and hasn't really needed to. But there is a new OS in the works I believe.

FYI, I have never seen a Sub-37 in person.

Edit: If price is a factor, right now is a buyer's market for used Voyagers. I also purchased my Voyager and Vx351 from Novamusik for $2999. I have seen better deals than that also for new.

Eric
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Re: Help newbie decide: Voayger vs Sub37

Post by thealien666 » Sun Nov 09, 2014 6:14 pm

I forgot to welcome you in my last message BorisYeltsin !

After re-reading your first post I've come to the conclusion that if, as you say, you want the best and can afford it, then go for the Voyager XL. You'll get the very best that Moog Music has to offer right now, aside from the 50th anniversary Emerson Modular, and it'll keep you occupied for years to come...
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MC
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Re: Help newbie decide: Voayger vs Sub37

Post by MC » Sun Nov 09, 2014 7:53 pm

thealien666 wrote:aside from the 50th anniversary Emerson Modular
Don't encourage him... :mrgreen:
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Re: Help newbie decide: Voayger vs Sub37

Post by c7sus » Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:27 pm

I think either the Voyager or the Sub 37 will draw you as far into them as you want to go.

I have an early model EB that I did the field upgrade to. It's been a great synth and is a joy to play.

Whichever way you decide to go be sure and leave room in the budget for some Foogers.

I'd recommend a 104M for starters.
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EMwhite
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Re: Help newbie decide: Voayger vs Sub37

Post by EMwhite » Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:01 am

Just get a Voyager and get it over with. But buy one used and you'll get a great deal; the market is absolutely flooded with them and they are for sale all the time. Avoid eBay because the sellers have to juice their auctions up 15% in order to be competitive on shipping and to cover fees.

There is a Voyager Performer for sale on the Buy/Sale forum on Muffs right now for something like $2,200. If on the other hand, you are the kind of person that wants to run sequences and tweak knobs, or hold arpeggios and play a lead or bass elsewhere, then ge the Sub37 and enjoy the type of features that Dave Smith has been incorporating into his synths for years.

But operating under the assumption that you will go with a Voyager, the ultimate desert island mono-synth, here is my view:

What you'll miss:
- the paraphonic stuff
- sub oscillator, however you can always add-on and the VX-351 opens up a wealth of possibilities
- looping envelopes
- arpeggiator and sequencer
- lightweight, easier to transport

What you'll gain:
- traditional Moog design and build
- fancy touchpad
- ability for substantial CV out capability expansion via VX-351 so if you envision yourself getting a modular some day or with lots of MoogerFoogers, this is a key differentiator
- time tested operating system which has been stable for many years (which may also be interpreted as no-more-enhancements-coming)

Just some more to think about...
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BorisYeltsin
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Re: Help newbie decide: Voayger vs Sub37

Post by BorisYeltsin » Mon Nov 10, 2014 7:09 am

namahshaman wrote:Not only does the 37 weigh less and take up less room on-stage, but the stable oscillators don't need any significant warmup time like the Voyagers (which can be an issue in certain venues with crowded lineups and pushy promoters).
Why no significant warmup time on the Sub37? Both got VCOs, right?
(Btw, I'm never out of the studio, no gigging.)
MC wrote:You've never owned a car before and you wanna drive like Dale Earnhardt? I'd say start out with the Sub 37. The Voyager actually has more options under the hood but could be overwhelming to a newcomer.
Sorry, should have mentioned that I've played keyboards and digital synthesizers for many years, but I'm no pro and there are functions that I've never used and don't yet understand. I've never owned an analog, and these past weeks I've been around in all the shops looking for an analog synth. I've tried Dave Smith and Moog - the former sounds too digital :(
thealien666 wrote:Since you've tried both, I'd say follow your gut feeling...
My gut feeling often fails me :lol: It says "go with the Sub37, it's feels like the digital synths I've played over the years and sounds nicer", but my gut feeling also say "there must be something I don't understand about the Voyager, so ask about the differences before I make a decision" :D .

BorisYeltsin
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Re: Help newbie decide: Voayger vs Sub37

Post by BorisYeltsin » Mon Nov 10, 2014 7:38 am

EMwhite wrote:Just get a Voyager and get it over with...

...ability for substantial CV out capability expansion via VX-351 so if you envision yourself getting a modular some day or with lots of MoogerFoogers, this is a key differentiator
That's what I'm unsure about: If I buy a Sub37 now, will I later wish that I'd bought the Voyager? And vice versa.

In fact I want to go modular, but I need to know more about it before I start buying parts. Right now the whole modular-thing seems a bit overwhelming. Could the Voyager be a good starting point for building a really nice modular system, that will invite to creativity, or will I have to build it around something else in the end? The Sub37 cannot be used in a modular system, or can it?

Also, thanks to everyone for great answers!

BorisYeltsin
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Re: Help newbie decide: Voayger vs Sub37

Post by BorisYeltsin » Mon Nov 10, 2014 8:02 am

Does the Voyager have a "latch"-function, as the Sub37? I like that function, holding whichever note played while I can modulate the sound with the buttons and knobs.

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