COMING NAMM 2014

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latigid on
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Re: COMING NAMM 2014

Post by latigid on » Sat Jan 18, 2014 9:51 am

I had a duophonic synth in the Teisco 110f, the filters very very Moogish (copies, from the schem.) but quite weak oscillators. You couldn't stack the two into one voice if I recall, so that got a bit annoying with normal monosynth styles.

Where it really started to shine was when you put the two into cross mod (oscillator 2>1 FM) and ring mod (selectable in the mixer section). Here all of the modulation was scalable via the keyboard and it sounded like nothing else I'd used before. Rich, evolving tones depending on the interval etc.

Good job on the new synth Moog, should be interesting to hear!

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Re: COMING NAMM 2014

Post by thealien666 » Sat Jan 18, 2014 10:00 am

Vsyevolod wrote:Running white noise through a Low-Pass filter will only start to emulate the sound of pink noise, though very imperfectly.
I did write that doing so would result in an approximation of pink noise... :roll:
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Re: COMING NAMM 2014

Post by Vsyevolod » Sat Jan 18, 2014 10:00 pm

I think I wrote the same thing... :)

Stephen




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CZ Rider
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Re: COMING NAMM 2014

Post by CZ Rider » Sat Jan 18, 2014 11:46 pm

I thought I read the SubPhatty had a pink noise generator not white. Could be the new Sub37 has the same?
There is nothing quite like the Mini red noise generator for modulation. Pre Mini there was the Moog 700 system that had a white 903 source with a pink and red filtered output panel.
Here is a scope shot of the 903 white and Mini pink and red noise sources.
White is an equal band, pink more of a jagged band, and red looks like lightning bolts.
Image
Red noise as a mod source sounds like it looks, pure electricity!

The Duophonic looks interesting. Much like the Sonic Six or Odyssey. Both Arp and Moog claimed these were polyphonic synthesizers in their 1972 brochures.
Would guess "Low note" would be both oscillators track lowest note pressed monophonicly. And likewise "High note" would be highest note, while maybe pressing both would give "Last note" priority, just like all the other newer Moogs. The "duo mode" would override this giving one oscillator low note and the other high note priority. That is how it is implemented on the Sonic Six and Odyssey. Press one note, both oscillators play the same note. Press a second key and the oscillators play an interval. Neither the Sonic Six or Odyssey had a Track/Hold on the second oscillator pitch CV, so decaying envelopes would revert to one note when keys are released. The Octave Cat later revisions had a hold on the second pitch. All required a certain playing style to optimise.

@Moog
What is the reference to a Roland synthesizer for? Does this have the Roland Paraphonic RS-505 filter or something Roland in it? Paraphonic was a Roland model name just like Minimoog or Odyssey or Pro~One. Why put a Roland model name on a Moog? Then say "made in USA" when that term is clearly made in Japan. You don't see Roland putting Minimoog on their synthesizers. If someone mistakenly refers to a stringer as a "Paraphonic" synthesizer because it has one filter, it usually can also play chords. Never heard anyone refer to a "Duo-Phonic" that can only play intervals as being paraphonic. I don't get it, unless there will be an upgrade to play chords in the future?
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latigid on
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Re: COMING NAMM 2014

Post by latigid on » Sun Jan 19, 2014 5:39 am

Looks like the red noise source is more strongly filtered than pink; CZ, could you post a spectral output?

One other thing with the Teisco: one or both of the oscillators went into LFO territory, again a big plus for those ringmod/crossmod patches.

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Re: COMING NAMM 2014

Post by unfiltered37 » Sun Jan 19, 2014 6:57 pm

CZ Rider wrote: Image
Red noise as a mod source sounds like it looks, pure electricity!

That is crazy. The red noise is modulating one oscillator waveform?

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Re: COMING NAMM 2014

Post by CZ Rider » Sun Jan 19, 2014 7:40 pm

unfiltered37 wrote:That is crazy. The red noise is modulating one oscillator waveform?
My scope shots are old school, done with a camera. So it's a bit of a time lapse of what happened in 1/60th of a second or so. That is just the actual Minimoog red noise output on the scope. Looks like electricity dancing on the screen. My Mini has some extra outputs and the modulation source from the modmix amplifier out/in is available.
The red noise is derived from the pink that is derived from the original white noise source. The Mini schematic shows a selected 2N3392 transistor that is amplified for the white noise source. This is filtered by a -3db/octave filter giving the pink noise output. (Have read an actual -3db/octave filter is difficult to construct, so it is an approximation.) This pink noise is further filtered by a 100Hz low pass filter to get that red noise output.
I have never listened to the red output, so I gave it a try. Sounds much deeper than the typical pink noise, but there is quite a bit of clicking present. So not really suitable for audio, but a great modulation source. No spectrum analyzer here.
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Re: COMING NAMM 2014

Post by monokit » Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:09 pm

CZ Rider wrote: @Moog
What is the reference to a Roland synthesizer for? Does this have the Roland Paraphonic RS-505 filter or something Roland in it? Paraphonic was a Roland model name just like Minimoog or Odyssey or Pro~One. Why put a Roland model name on a Moog? Then say "made in USA" when that term is clearly made in Japan. You don't see Roland putting Minimoog on their synthesizers. If someone mistakenly refers to a stringer as a "Paraphonic" synthesizer because it has one filter, it usually can also play chords. Never heard anyone refer to a "Duo-Phonic" that can only play intervals as being paraphonic. I don't get it, unless there will be an upgrade to play chords in the future?
The SubPhatty noise is not pink at all...rather purple.

Waldorf uses the term "paraphonic" for their synths Rocket and Pulse2. Maybe, the Sub37 (cool name!) is duophonic but also additionally paraphonic?

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Re: COMING NAMM 2014

Post by eXode » Tue Jan 21, 2014 3:09 am

monokit wrote:Waldorf uses the term "paraphonic" for their synths Rocket and Pulse2. Maybe, the Sub37 (cool name!) is duophonic but also additionally paraphonic?
No, it just means that you will be able to play OSC1 and OSC2 individually. I.e. it's two note paraphonic. Duophonic would be an incorrect term as that would require each voice to have it's own filter, envelopes and VCA. The Oberheim Two Voice is true duophonic (or bi-timbral).

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Re: COMING NAMM 2014

Post by monokit » Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:18 am

Hm, ok...the SOS article also helped a bit: http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/dec00/a ... nthsec.asp

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Re: COMING NAMM 2014

Post by Beany » Tue Jan 21, 2014 5:09 pm

I posted this up elsewhere - although all I did was make it black and add the lights to another pic...

Image

Really hope it DOES look like this though :mrgreen:

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Re: COMING NAMM 2014

Post by EMwhite » Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:43 pm

Beany wrote:I posted this up elsewhere - although all I did was make it black and add the lights to another pic...

Image

Really hope it DOES look like this though :mrgreen:
I gotta tell you, if they use those clear/jeweled illuminating buttons and wood end panels, I'm going to be thrilled. I won't be able to get one anytime soon because my $$ is tied up in other crap, but man, that's a looker!

Moog used them on the prototype Minitaur, but then opted for the opaque/milky lit buttons; not quite as nice in my opinion.
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Re: COMING NAMM 2014

Post by Beany » Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:19 pm

Yeah, clear jewel buttons, wooden end cheeks, MT B&W styling - completely wishful thinking on my part lol

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thealien666
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Re: COMING NAMM 2014

Post by thealien666 » Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:53 pm

I personally think it looks better in white...
Image

(I know it's not exactly the same panel, but you get the idea... :wink: )
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Re: COMING NAMM 2014

Post by Kenneth » Tue Jan 21, 2014 11:00 pm

Am I the only one who thinks the Little / Sub Phatty chassis is a little silly? I know Moog probably don't want to spend the extra cash on a new design, especially when they can use the leftover materials from the discontinued Little Phatty, but I was hoping to see something a little more "form follows function" with this one. I don't like using gear that looks ridiculous.
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