COMING NAMM 2014

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megavoice
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Re: COMING NAMM 2014

Post by megavoice » Thu Jan 16, 2014 9:44 am

"paraphonic" means: disharmonious, dissonant, false.............
"Losers always whine about their best. Winners go home and fu** the prom queen." —Sean Connery to Nicholas Cage in "The Rock" (1996)
I've never seen any real prom queen here in my country, but if we had some they'd
**** with everyone.

ColorForm2113
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Re: COMING NAMM 2014

Post by ColorForm2113 » Thu Jan 16, 2014 10:01 am

megavoice wrote:"paraphonic" means: disharmonious, dissonant, false.............

interesting, I wonder why it was picked up in the synth world the way it was. you can certainly play disharmonious and dissonant sounds on it, but I'm sure that's not the main marketing tactic :lol:
My modular so far: Q104, Q106 x2, Q107, Q108, Q109 x2 , Q116, Q118, Q127 w/Q140, Q130, STG Wave Folder, Mixer and Mankato playing with Moog Voyager, VX-351, CP-251, MF-104M x2 ( STEREO!) Volca Beats and Bass, Arturia Beat step

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stiiiiiiive
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Re: COMING NAMM 2014

Post by stiiiiiiive » Thu Jan 16, 2014 10:03 am

ColorForm2113 wrote:
megavoice wrote:"paraphonic" means: disharmonious, dissonant, false.............

interesting, I wonder why it was picked up in the synth world the way it was.

Ask Roland ;)

megavoice
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Re: COMING NAMM 2014

Post by megavoice » Thu Jan 16, 2014 10:04 am

I'm wondering about this term as well.........
"Losers always whine about their best. Winners go home and fu** the prom queen." —Sean Connery to Nicholas Cage in "The Rock" (1996)
I've never seen any real prom queen here in my country, but if we had some they'd
**** with everyone.

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Bald Eagle
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Re: COMING NAMM 2014

Post by Bald Eagle » Thu Jan 16, 2014 10:09 am

Paraphonic is discussed a bit in this thread ...

http://www.matrixsynth.com/2014/01/new- ... -namm.html

An excerpt that may be of interest ...

Update2: Looks like it will be two voice paraphonic. via Amos Gaynes of Moog on Facebook: "...the new Moog synth is '2-note paraphonic' -- it can play two independent pitches from its two oscillators, in response to two keys played at once. Paraphonic still seemed less misleading than 'Duophonic' (to me) because of the single VCF, VCA, and their respective envelope generators. Although ultimately I had very little to do with what got written on the panel"

damodafoca
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Re: COMING NAMM 2014

Post by damodafoca » Thu Jan 16, 2014 10:11 am

Wow ! An update of a 1000$ synth released less than a year ? :shock: :evil:

megavoice
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Re: COMING NAMM 2014

Post by megavoice » Thu Jan 16, 2014 10:36 am

Bald Eagle wrote:Paraphonic is discussed a bit in this thread ...

http://www.matrixsynth.com/2014/01/new- ... -namm.html


Ah ! O.K. Thank You.
"Losers always whine about their best. Winners go home and fu** the prom queen." —Sean Connery to Nicholas Cage in "The Rock" (1996)
I've never seen any real prom queen here in my country, but if we had some they'd
**** with everyone.

an3
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Re: COMING NAMM 2014

Post by an3 » Thu Jan 16, 2014 10:55 am

i hope soo much that the 2nd synth will be a minitaur !! with FULL octave range !!, so i can sell all my other semi nice synths i use live
.. maybye throw in a noise oscillator whilst ur at it
:)

ps a mini phatty also ncie :)

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stiiiiiiive
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Re: COMING NAMM 2014

Post by stiiiiiiive » Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:05 am

The second one is likely to be a Theremini.


megavoice wrote:
Bald Eagle wrote:Paraphonic is discussed a bit in this thread ...

http://www.matrixsynth.com/2014/01/new- ... -namm.html


Ah ! O.K. Thank You.

Sorry Megavoice, I would have given you a couple of clues if I hadn't thought you were ironic :oops:

Simply put, paraphony is when N oscillators go to only one filter and only one VCA.
The term seems to have been invented by Roland as in "almost polyphony" in order to differenciate the VP/RS series from the Jupiters/Juno series.

megavoice
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Re: COMING NAMM 2014

Post by megavoice » Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:13 am

stiiiiiiive wrote:The second one is likely to be a Theremini.


megavoice wrote:
Bald Eagle wrote:Paraphonic is discussed a bit in this thread ...

http://www.matrixsynth.com/2014/01/new- ... -namm.html


Ah ! O.K. Thank You.

Sorry Megavoice, I would have given you a couple of clues if I hadn't thought you were ironic :oops:

Simply put, paraphony is when N oscillators go to only one filter and only one VCA.
The term seems to have been invented by Roland as in "almost polyphony" in order to differenciate the VP/RS series from the Jupiters/Juno series.


No probs, :wink:
"Losers always whine about their best. Winners go home and fu** the prom queen." —Sean Connery to Nicholas Cage in "The Rock" (1996)
I've never seen any real prom queen here in my country, but if we had some they'd
**** with everyone.

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MC
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Re: COMING NAMM 2014

Post by MC » Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:23 am

So is the Theremini also paraphonic? :mrgreen:
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Bald Eagle
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Re: COMING NAMM 2014

Post by Bald Eagle » Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:30 am

MC wrote:So is the Theremini also paraphonic? :mrgreen:

No ... But they can be poly chained :D

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Kenneth
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Re: COMING NAMM 2014

Post by Kenneth » Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:33 am

fyvewytches wrote:It's paraphonic. Which means (somebody please correct me if I'm wrong) that you can play every note on the keyboard at the same time BUT they share the same EG, filter and VCA. Although it may this may be very limiting for some people, I find paraphonic synths very playable. My Roland VP-330 is paraphonic, it takes a bit of getting used to.


fyvewytches, here is a brief explanation from Marc Doty concerning "polyphony" vs. "paraphony":

Marc Doty wrote:PARAPHONIC vs. POLYPHONIC

It's one of my pet peeves, actually. There seems to be some extensive confusion about what these terms mean, and what they mean in relation to each other.

Even the Wiki page states something ridiculous about "true polyphony."

So, I'm here to set the record straight (in regard to synthesizers).

Monophonic/Monophony: This synthesizer, triggered from a keyboard, can only play one note at a time. Now, depending on the amount of oscillators, more than one note may be heard... but all of these notes will move in tandem when different single notes are played on the keyboard.

Duophonic/Duophony: This synthesizer, triggered from a keyboard, can only play two notes at a time. This term came into being in regard to synthesizers at the point where synthesizer oscillators were modified to be either "low note priority (the lowest voltage is played, all others are ignored)," or "high note priority (the highest voltage is played, all others are ignored)." Synthesizers like the ARP Odyssey, the Moog Sonic Six, and some versions of the ARP 2600 are duophonic. You can play two notes at a time, one for each voltage. Of course, you also need at least two oscillators.

Polyphonic/Polyphony: This synthesizer, triggered from a keyboard, can play two or more notes at a time. Yes, I know... that overlaps with the term "duophonic," but these things can't be helped. "Polyphonic" is a very general term.
In regard to analog synths, there are two types of polyphony.

There is top-octave divide-down polyphony, where the top octave of keys has its notes provided by 12 fixed-pitch oscillators and those frequencies are divided in half to aquire each subsequent descending octave. That means the synthesizer has 12 oscillators, and 12 dividers per octave after that. Every SINGLE note can be played at the same time on this synthesizer. This is, by definition, "true" polyphony. It started in 1939 with the Hammond Novachord, and has been used extensively in a variety of synthesizers up until the 1980s.

There is "limited, but individually-articulated" polyphony. This is polyphony where a microprocessor scans which notes are played when, and applies that information to the available oscillators. This type of polyphony came about with advances in microprocessor technology that made microprocessors less expensive and more available in the 1970s. It allows you to have more control over the articulation of each note, but severely limits the amount of notes that can be played at once. The Sequential Circuits Prophet 5 and the Yamaha CS-80 are examples of this method. The limitation comes in because each note needs a variable oscillator... or even two. And those are expensive.

Of course, with digital technology, polyphony increased from 2 notes to 4 notes to 8 notes to 16 notes, and etc. More powerful computers means more powerful voice allocation and less expensive digital oscillators.

[Note: there is actually a type of polyphony that was created by Harald Bode back in the 1930s which allows electric note allocation, but apart from the Warbo Formant Organ, I don't think it has been implemented anywhere else... I'm really curious about it]

Okay, and that's it. That's the end. Those are the types of polyphony.

"But wait!" You say... "What about PARAPHONY! Isn't that a form of fake or not true or not-quite-real polyphony?"
No, it most certainly IS NOT. It really has NOTHING TO DO WITH polyphony. In fact, every monophonic is ALSO paraphonic.

I know you're running to your favorite online dictionary right now... but I'm going to plow ahead.

"Paraphonic" is a term that has to do with articulation... not a term that has to do with how many notes a synth can generate. A "paraphonic" synthesizer is one where all of the notes generated... from 1 to 1,000,000... go through a single filter and VCA combination. That's it. That is what "paraphonic" means. It's just more noticeable when you're trying to articulate polyphonic passages.

A synthesizer like the ARP Omni is paraphonic. It has a divide-down polyphony scheme, but all of those notes, and every triggering of those notes, is forced through a single filter and VCA. What does this mean? It means you can't have each new note played featuring new filter articulation without having that same articulation occur on the notes you're holding. Or, it means that new notes get articulation, but old notes get nothing. Is that awesome? Well, not really. In fact, people kind of hate it, sometimes. They want each note to trigger a filter and VCA. Which is, I must point out, just like a piano. People really like how each note played has its own volume and filter articulation.

Just like, say, a Prophet 5 or a Memorymoog. But the problem with those is that you run out of notes quite quickly. In the Prophet 5, you only have 5 notes to play before you run out of polyphony. What kind of polyphony is that? SEVERELY limited polyphony. But... people tend to favor it because they like the articulation more than they like the note-count.

Of course, you could always go the route of the Korg PS-3100. It is divide-down, but instead of going the paraphonic route, it has A FILTER AND VCA FOR EVERY SINGLE ONE OF ITS NOTES. Yeah, that gets expensive fast... which is why most manufacturers didn't take that route.

And that is what it comes down to. "Polyphony" is how many notes a synth can play at once. "Paraphony" is the instance where those notes are directed through a single filter/amp combination. Synths can be polyphonic AND paraphonic. Synths can even be monophonic and paraphonic. But the only "real" polyphony is when every note can be played at once... whether you seek individual articulation or not. Instead of saying things like "real polyphony," we should describe full polyphony with full articulation with a term like "ideal polyphony."



Okay, all of that being said... if you really examine this graphic, it's probably most likely that this is a duophonic synth, and not a polyphonic synth. Look at the "duo mode."

After you've read that, I also want you to open the .pdf file Moog has kindly shared with us, and closely examine the front panel. There is clearly visible in the oscillator section a "duo mode" swtich. This makes me think "duophonic". I'm not sure what else that could mean.
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Bald Eagle
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Re: COMING NAMM 2014

Post by Bald Eagle » Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:39 am

I believe you can run it as a mono synth or as a two voice Paraphonic synth (Duo Mode). It is not true duophonic as it shares envelopes, etc.

They should have gone for 3 voices so you could get a full chord.

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stiiiiiiive
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Re: COMING NAMM 2014

Post by stiiiiiiive » Thu Jan 16, 2014 12:21 pm

Bald Eagle wrote:I believe you can run it as a mono synth or as a two voice Paraphonic synth (Duo Mode). It is not true duophonic as it shares envelopes, etc.

I understand the same.

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