Moog Music Forum

Posted: **Tue Oct 15, 2013 5:13 pm**

EricK wrote:add a Pratt-Reed keyboard.

Pratt-Read ceased production of keybeds in the late 1980s. The corporation was purchased from a bankruptcy auction in 2010 and they only manufacture tools.

Posted: **Tue Oct 15, 2013 5:55 pm**

eXode wrote:Erm, seriously. Why all the flak?

Some points (in no specific order)

1. The Sub Phatty is $999 USD on Sweetwater.com. How is $1700 "too cheap" for one extra VCO and a slightly larger keyboard?
2. The Voyager has two filters, The Sub Phatty has one.
3. The Voyager is arguable made of higher grade material.
4. The Voyager has a more advanced interface (touch X/Y, etc) pad.
5. The Voyager has a larger Mod Bus with more options.
6. The Voyager has a larger keyboard than both the Sub, and Little Phatty.
7. The Sub Phatty has a mixer with traits from the original Mini Model D, the Voyager not so much.
8. The Voyager filter freq knob is capped at 12 kHz, The Sub Phatty goes to at least 20 kHz (as does the older Moog).

Making comments about pricing and comparisons to Voyager make me question your actual knowledge of the two synths structure. I know the Voyager, and I'm sad to say that I don't like it or the Little Phatty for it's darker character (see filter cap point again) compared to the older Moog's (or the Sub Phatty), I also happen to like the saturating mixer of the original Mini D that the Sub Phatty has (or is inspired by). But hey, thanks for trying to show me my place!

sorry you took that wrong, it was meant to be sarcasm. i should have ended with

Posted: **Tue Oct 15, 2013 7:07 pm**

eXode wrote:How is $1700 "too cheap" for one extra VCO and a slightly larger keyboard?

When it says Moog on it.

Seriously though the differences in specs between your proposed price point instrument and the Voyager, IMHO would be difficult for a consumer to justify the expense of a Voyager..., this Phatty would for many people be a fair compromise. I would be willing to bet that almost all people considering the Voyager would decide against it at that point. Unless Moog were interested in cutting into their Voyager sales drastically, this would not make sense.

Posted: **Tue Oct 15, 2013 7:57 pm**

MC wrote:
EricK wrote:add a Pratt-Reed keyboard.
Pratt-Read ceased production of keybeds in the late 1980s. The corporation was purchased from a bankruptcy auction in 2010 and they only manufacture tools.

I wasn't suggesting that was a viable option as much as I was commenting on how wonderful they feel compared to the Fatar on the Voyager.

Posted: **Tue Oct 15, 2013 8:35 pm**

EricK wrote:
MC wrote:
EricK wrote:add a Pratt-Reed keyboard.
Pratt-Read ceased production of keybeds in the late 1980s. The corporation was purchased from a bankruptcy auction in 2010 and they only manufacture tools.

I wasn't suggesting that was a viable option as much as I was commenting on how wonderful they feel compared to the Fatar on the Voyager.

No argument there. They don't make 'em like they used to...

Posted: **Tue Oct 15, 2013 9:45 pm**

MC wrote:
EricK wrote:
MC wrote:
EricK wrote:add a Pratt-Reed keyboard.
Pratt-Read ceased production of keybeds in the late 1980s. The corporation was purchased from a bankruptcy auction in 2010 and they only manufacture tools.

I wasn't suggesting that was a viable option as much as I was commenting on how wonderful they feel compared to the Fatar on the Voyager.
No argument there. They don't make 'em like they used to...

....and just to elongate this thread, there were several styles of Pratt-Read keyboards.
Most used the same key and pivot mechanism, but the early ones had different contacts (not J-wires) and thus had an additional little mechanism under each key.
On these keyboards, there was a small dome (known as a bell crank dome) that would rub (lubed) on the underside of the key.
It made the keyboards feel a little different than later J-wire units.
Keyboards of this earlier style included all Mini D's, the Polymoog, early Odys, 2600s, 2500s, and most Moog modular keyboards.
To make up for their additional pressure, they used slightly lighter springs.
The polymoog however had heavy springs since they were were weighted keys.
Later PR keyboards used all plastic keys also and didn't feel quite as nice.
These can be found on later Oberheims and some Arps.
Sooo.. not all Pratt-Read keyboards feel the same.

Posted: **Tue Oct 15, 2013 10:40 pm**

Kevin Lightner wrote:Later PR keyboards used all plastic keys also and didn't feel quite as nice.

Forgot about those... had one like that when I built my PAiA in 1981 and it did not feel as nice as the earlier one in the OB-X

I wondered if PR made reverse color keybeds, and they did... on the lookout for a certain instrument so I can scavenge the keyshells and put them on my OB-X

Posted: **Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:34 am**

I ended up swapping out a set of those all plastic P-R keybeds that was in a late model orange/black Odyssey I was rebuilding. The metal channel "J" wire keybed did have a better and more solid feel/action. A pic to see the difference in the much cheaper all plastic version.

The very early Moog modular 950 keyboards used a different kind of "J" wire. These were the original ones with solid walnut sides and long/deep tops made in '66/'67. They had long metal channels on the keys, with nylon ends that pushed metal contacts into the "J" wire. They certainly don't make them like that anymore. A littly clunky, but a somewhat weighted action.

A close up of the original Moog "J" wire contacts.

You get what you pay for, and today cheaper sells.

Posted: **Wed Oct 16, 2013 1:11 am**

I didn't mean for my comment to get the thread hijacked

. The Prodigy I played must have used the plastic keys, it felt worse than both Stage one and two Phatty keybeds.

Can anyone comment on the feel of the Sub when compared to the Phatty? With so few keys it would be nice if they at least played good.

Posted: **Wed Oct 16, 2013 1:17 am**

And in the meantime...

Dave Smith Instruments announces the Mopho Special Edition Keyboard

;P

Posted: **Wed Oct 16, 2013 2:34 pm**

eXode wrote:And in the meantime...

Dave Smith Instruments announces the Mopho Special Edition Keyboard

;P

As always, the advice to "try before you buy" would apply here. Some people like the sound of those DSI filters, some hate them. Same with the DSI oscillators.

However, it is nice to see a new 44-key analog synth.

Posted: **Wed Oct 16, 2013 2:48 pm**

GovernorSilver wrote:
eXode wrote:And in the meantime...

Dave Smith Instruments announces the Mopho Special Edition Keyboard

;P
As always, the advice to "try before you buy" would apply here. Some people like the sound of those DSI filters, some hate them. Same with the DSI oscillators.

However, it is nice to see a new 44-key analog synth.

Well, I personally think that the DSI sound suits polyphony better. I find their analogues to have a brassy and/or stringy Oberheim quality to them, which maybe isn't so strange considering the heritage of the chip they use (Marion Pro Systems, Oberheim Matrix 1000, etc), and that sound, imho works very well for chords, but not so much for lead or bass. But that is my taste/opinion.

Posted: **Fri Oct 18, 2013 12:42 pm**

Back to original thread .... evolution of Sub Phatty...

I think a couple of CV outs might be good. We have CV ins so why not out ??

M

Posted: **Fri Oct 18, 2013 1:30 pm**

EricK wrote:I didn't mean for my comment to get the thread hijacked . The Prodigy I played must have used the plastic keys, it felt worse than both Stage one and two Phatty keybeds.

Can anyone comment on the feel of the Sub when compared to the Phatty? With so few keys it would be nice if they at least played good.

I can confirm that the sub's keyboard does indeed feel very nice. Not as nice as the Voyager, but nice.

Posted: **Fri Oct 18, 2013 5:33 pm**

YES! like a Japanese TRANSFORMER toy ~
I want a MODULAR TransPhatty please, that folds up like a ROOMBA, floor vacuum with a cat seat http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLt5rBfNucc

MC wrote:They could call it the Trans Phatty

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