Signal chain in live situations

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Rabalder
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Signal chain in live situations

Post by Rabalder » Fri Aug 09, 2013 6:42 am

Im just wondering what you people prefer to use in your signal chain when playing live.
Im not talking about effects, but DIs and preamps, etc.
From synth to PA..
Do you consider what the soundguy is adding to you signal chain??
Do you have a mixer with preamps on stage?
etc.......

Just Me
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Re: Signal chain in live situations

Post by Just Me » Fri Aug 09, 2013 8:59 am

Mixer and all my effects on stage. Send 2 to 8 channels to house as needed. My monitoring is good enough on stage that the house sound man needs only set levels and eq for the venue.
"Music expresses that which can not be said and on which it is impossible to be silent."

Rabalder
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Re: Signal chain in live situations

Post by Rabalder » Fri Aug 09, 2013 10:42 am

Just Me wrote:Mixer and all my effects on stage. Send 2 to 8 channels to house as needed. My monitoring is good enough on stage that the house sound man needs only set levels and eq for the venue.

Do you have 8 outputs on your mixer?
Do you use the preamps or line-inputs on your mixer? In case of preamps, do you consider how several preamps might color you sound??

Just Me
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Re: Signal chain in live situations

Post by Just Me » Sat Aug 10, 2013 9:19 pm

Rabalder wrote:
Just Me wrote:Mixer and all my effects on stage. Send 2 to 8 channels to house as needed. My monitoring is good enough on stage that the house sound man needs only set levels and eq for the venue.

Do you have 8 outputs on your mixer?
Do you use the preamps or line-inputs on your mixer? In case of preamps, do you consider how several preamps might color you sound??


I have 16 pfl channel outs. 4 aux busses, 2 monitor busses, a control room out and the main outs to use of needed. I run direct. Pre's are for mics and guitars, not high level signals from the synths. I don't worry about coloration either. I'm playing dives, art galleries and outdoor venues through whatever sound system is available. Subtlety doesn't come in to play here. (And I use an entirely different console to record.)
"Music expresses that which can not be said and on which it is impossible to be silent."

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MC
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Re: Signal chain in live situations

Post by MC » Sat Aug 10, 2013 11:54 pm

Your soundguy's life will be much easier if you send him just a mix and not individual sends. But if your piano or synth patches conflict with the bass plays or the guitar player, he will turn you down. The more you are conscious of the musicians around you, the better off you will be in the mix.
Gear list: '04 Saturn Ion, John Deere X300 tractor, ganged set of seven reel mowers for 3 acres of lawn, herd of sheep for backup lawn mowers, two tiger cats for mouse population control Oh you meant MUSIC gear Oops I hit the 255 character limi

Rabalder
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Re: Signal chain in live situations

Post by Rabalder » Sun Aug 11, 2013 7:45 am

Just Me wrote:I have 16 pfl channel outs. 4 aux busses, 2 monitor busses, a control room out and the main outs to use of needed. I run direct. Pre's are for mics and guitars, not high level signals from the synths. I don't worry about coloration either. I'm playing dives, art galleries and outdoor venues through whatever sound system is available. Subtlety doesn't come in to play here. (And I use an entirely different console to record.)

Ive been reading about a lot of people who prefer to use a DI boxes and preamps in their rigs. Just curious to what(if any) people actually do with their signal. The only thing I use in this category is a reamp to change the impedans and make a zvex fuzzbox sound better. When I bought my little mackie mixer I definitely didnt consider how this might color my sound. Still havnt got a clue if it actually does so...

kslight
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Re: Signal chain in live situations

Post by kslight » Sun Aug 11, 2013 6:06 pm

No offense I just think you're overthinking it. In a live situation there are so many more significant variables than the sonic impact of a mic preamp that are far out of your control I would not worry about it as long as you are sending a decent mix to the sound guy.

Rabalder
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Re: Signal chain in live situations

Post by Rabalder » Mon Aug 12, 2013 8:32 am

kslight wrote:No offense I just think you're overthinking it. In a live situation there are so many more significant variables than the sonic impact of a mic preamp that are far out of your control I would not worry about it as long as you are sending a decent mix to the sound guy.

I dont worry, Im just curious about what other people prefer to use. (or dont prefer to use..)
Most people usually just talk about overedrive, filters and delays. The more subtle things are rarely mentioned..
So youre saying preamps are a waste of money?

Just Me
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Re: Signal chain in live situations

Post by Just Me » Mon Aug 12, 2013 9:59 am

Live they are a waste of time and money. Recording is a different story.
"Music expresses that which can not be said and on which it is impossible to be silent."

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Vsyevolod
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Re: Signal chain in live situations

Post by Vsyevolod » Mon Aug 12, 2013 3:36 pm

"Little Mackie mixer" = low quality sound. Large Mackie mixers will give much better sound with more 'openness' and less noise. Whether or not this matters in a live situation I don't know.

You get what you pay for. A small Mackie is probably better than running straight into the PA though. It gives you some control over your sound and less reliance on the sound person.

Stephen




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kslight
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Re: Signal chain in live situations

Post by kslight » Mon Aug 12, 2013 6:48 pm

Rabalder wrote:
kslight wrote:No offense I just think you're overthinking it. In a live situation there are so many more significant variables than the sonic impact of a mic preamp that are far out of your control I would not worry about it as long as you are sending a decent mix to the sound guy.

I dont worry, Im just curious about what other people prefer to use. (or dont prefer to use..)
Most people usually just talk about overedrive, filters and delays. The more subtle things are rarely mentioned..
So youre saying preamps are a waste of money?


I use preamps that cost $10 a channel (used price, anyway...and with some modification by yours truly) and preamps that cost $2500 a channel, everywhere in between. As long as it wasn't a totally bogus mic preamp design to begin with, the difference really is narrow. I'm not saying I don't find any use in great preamps, they definitely can do some things that you just can't with lesser models, such as be exceptionally clean even with high gain, or on the contrary...sound good pushed...but for vanilla recording it isn't nearly as big of a difference as some would have you believe. Especially in a live situation, where again, there are so many other variables...like the room acoustics (usually bleep), the PA (usually bleep), the sound guy (usually bleep), the outboard gear in the sound booth (always bleep), and the awareness/opinion of the audience (usually bleep). My experience only, YMMV.

Rabalder
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Re: Signal chain in live situations

Post by Rabalder » Mon Aug 12, 2013 6:59 pm

Just Me wrote:Live they are a waste of time and money. Recording is a different story.
Thats what I was thinking, but if anyone in this forum prefer to use preamps live, Id like to hear your side of the story.

Vsyevolod wrote:"Little Mackie mixer" = low quality sound. Large Mackie mixers will give much better sound with more 'openness' and less noise. Whether or not this matters in a live situation I don't know.

I can actually hear my submixed clicktrack leaking into the main output on my little mackie mixer(802). Thats quite disappointing! I use a lot of fuzz and distortion on my synths so I dont think it really matters that much live anyway.
How large would you say a large (good) mackie mixer has to be?

Rabalder
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Re: Signal chain in live situations

Post by Rabalder » Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:09 pm

kslight wrote:
Rabalder wrote:
kslight wrote:No offense I just think you're overthinking it. In a live situation there are so many more significant variables than the sonic impact of a mic preamp that are far out of your control I would not worry about it as long as you are sending a decent mix to the sound guy.

I dont worry, Im just curious about what other people prefer to use. (or dont prefer to use..)
Most people usually just talk about overedrive, filters and delays. The more subtle things are rarely mentioned..
So youre saying preamps are a waste of money?


I use preamps that cost $10 a channel (used price, anyway...and with some modification by yours truly) and preamps that cost $2500 a channel, everywhere in between. As long as it wasn't a totally bogus mic preamp design to begin with, the difference really is narrow. I'm not saying I don't find any use in great preamps, they definitely can do some things that you just can't with lesser models, such as be exceptionally clean even with high gain, or on the contrary...sound good pushed...but for vanilla recording it isn't nearly as big of a difference as some would have you believe. Especially in a live situation, where again, there are so many other variables...like the room acoustics (usually bleep), the PA (usually bleep), the sound guy (usually bleep), the outboard gear in the sound booth (always bleep), and the awareness/opinion of the audience (usually bleep). My experience only, YMMV.

Thanks for clarifying!

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Vsyevolod
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Re: Signal chain in live situations

Post by Vsyevolod » Mon Aug 12, 2013 10:43 pm

Rabalder wrote:How large would you say a large (good) mackie mixer has to be?


I started with a Tascam Portastudio as my main mixer about 25 years ago. When I upgraded to a Mackie 1604 I thought "Wow! That sounds so much better!" I've used 24-4 Mackie's that seem to have the same quality, also 3204's. Then I upgraded to a Mackie 24-8 and again, it was like night and day. The separate power supply on the 24-8 weighs more than the Mackie 1604 itself!

For live stuff, I imagine the 1604 (or 24-4 or 32-4 or 3204) would be good enough.

Stephen)




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