what should moog release next?

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what should moog release next

"more affordable synthesizer"
17
8%
vocoder
10
5%
drum machine
26
13%
modular
22
11%
new moogerfooger (mf style)
20
10%
new moogerfooger (cp 251 style)
29
14%
self contained poly synth
78
39%
 
Total votes: 202

Flash Gordon
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Post by Flash Gordon » Wed Apr 30, 2008 10:41 am

A Poly Synth with built in FX!!

kidgloves2
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Post by kidgloves2 » Wed Apr 30, 2008 9:56 pm

Is MOOG even considering a poly synthesizer? Isn't it too expensive for them to make?

I would love the tone and ease of use of the Little Phatty, but with at least 4 voices. I prefer 6-8 voices.

Can Moog do it and keep it under $3,000?

ARP
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Post by ARP » Thu May 01, 2008 9:32 am

kidgloves2 wrote:Is MOOG even considering a poly synthesizer? Isn't it too expensive for them to make?

I would love the tone and ease of use of the Little Phatty, but with at least 4 voices. I prefer 6-8 voices.

Can Moog do it and keep it under $3,000?
Why not??? Dave Smith Instruments did (Prophet 08) Alesis did it(Andromeda)
"Although they heard the music..they didn't understand the tune"

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Kevin Lightner
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Post by Kevin Lightner » Thu May 01, 2008 12:57 pm

Arp did it, then went out business.
Alesis did it, then sold the company.
Moog did with the Memorymoog and soon after went out of business.
SCI did it before and went out of business. (DSI's P8 uses digital oscillators too.)
Oberheim did it and sold the company.
Octave Plateau was also a casualty.
Roland, Yamaha and Korg all went digital and abandoned analog synth design and production.

Most of these analog companies started out with great quality products and by the time they were mature were making garbage or repackaging Italian synths and putting their names on 'em.

Moog might be able to do it, but don't expect an 18 analog VCO synth like the Memorymoog again.
Curtis Electromusic (CEM chips as found in the Memorymoog) also stopped making these chips when the other companies went out biz or went digital.

Nowadays, labor costs and competition are increased, while the economy is going bad.

gd
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Location: Canada

Post by gd » Thu May 01, 2008 1:10 pm

Kevin Lightner wrote:Nowadays, labor costs and competition are increased, while the economy is going bad.
For this reason I would almost prefer to see Moog develop less costly (both R & D and selling price) synth add ons like a ribbon cntlr etc. Who knows how long and deep this downturn will end up being but I would like to see Moog still in business at the end of it all.
Mini D, P'08 ..

EricK
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Post by EricK » Thu May 01, 2008 2:25 pm

Yes Im really hoping for a dedicated touchpad controller for those RME/OS owners.
Having that or a ribbon controller would be nice.

Id also like to see Moog make a tabletop analog drum machine sort of like the synsonics with a cv output for each drum essentially giving you a wide range of varying voltages to apply to all of the voltage controlled gear. Imagine the music that you could make combining the audio outputs of the drums with the cv outputs going to the voyager and the Osc Foogers! 4 drums would be like 4 oscillators with fast envelopes. 2 potentiometers per drum to change the pitch (or cv out) and the other would extend the release.
Have a little 16 quarter note memory for making a loop and you coudl create a nice orchestral synth if you had a voyager/lp and some foogers.

Image

With the arpeggiator now included on the LP and this device with its cv outs it could very well simulate a step sequencer!

oh how we dream...


EricK
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EricK
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Post by EricK » Thu May 01, 2008 3:07 pm

Image

Heres the moog drum i crudely drew in 10 minutes

5 drums:
Tom 1
Tom 2
Bass
Snare
Cymbal

Each drum is like a sinewave or other waveshape generator with a fast envelope and controllable pitch and release pot.

THe botton panel lets you play with your fingers using half/quarter/16th notes per drum (square groups of three).
THe 2 longer buttons are accents mainly for the cymbal to have the hi hat effect or other pre programed modulation.

THen theres a 16 quarter note memory, several banks of those and with at least 3 of those buttons reserved for changing tempo and start/stop.

There would be a cv out on the back for each drumpad that could be sent to an external device and an audio output.

So each drum woudl make its drum sound but with Oscillators from Foogers and Voyagers would make it able to play drum, bass leads, etc.

lolololololololololol


Im sure i coudl have thought this through a little better, I think we all want to design the next fooger!
Eric
Support the Bob Moog Foundation:
https://moogfoundation.org/do-something-2/donate/

I think I hear the mothership coming.

ARP
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Post by ARP » Thu May 01, 2008 10:03 pm

Kevin Lightner wrote:Arp did it, then went out business.
Alesis did it, then sold the company.
Moog did with the Memorymoog and soon after went out of business.
SCI did it before and went out of business. (DSI's P8 uses digital oscillators too.)
Oberheim did it and sold the company.
Octave Plateau was also a casualty.
Roland, Yamaha and Korg all went digital and abandoned analog synth design and production.

Most of these analog companies started out with great quality products and by the time they were mature were making garbage or repackaging Italian synths and putting their names on 'em.

Moog might be able to do it, but don't expect an 18 analog VCO synth like the Memorymoog again.
Curtis Electromusic (CEM chips as found in the Memorymoog) also stopped making these chips when the other companies went out biz or went digital.

Nowadays, labor costs and competition are increased, while the economy is going bad.
ARP doomed itself with the AVATAR Guitar Synth (is moog really doing a synth guitar)

Alesis is still alive, building and selling the Andromeda

I agree with most of your post, especially the decline in quality and flawed products that marked the end of these once mighty synth icons.

Your comment that we will never see the likes of the memorymoog again is unfortunately sad but true :( if moog were to build a poly analog not as grandiose as the MM perhaps a scaled back poly similar to the Korg Polysix - DSI P-8 , I think it would do very well. Maybe the time isnt right..but hopefully someday it will be :wink:
"Although they heard the music..they didn't understand the tune"

Maskin
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Post by Maskin » Fri May 02, 2008 3:46 am

ARP wrote:
Kevin Lightner wrote:Alesis did it, then sold the company.
Alesis is still alive, building and selling the Andromeda
They sold the company because Alesis was slow to respond when more cost-effective hard-disk recorders began to erode the ADAT's market position.
So that had nothing to do with the Andromeda.
[size=75]"I like to play with electronic noise makers. I hope someone wants to listen, and if not, I'll still be up at 3 am making sequences in the dark, drinking coffee, and burning expensive incense." [i]Rod Modell[/i][/size]

misterhemi
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Post by misterhemi » Fri May 02, 2008 6:21 am

Kevin Lightner wrote:Arp did it, then went out business.

SCI did it before and went out of business. (DSI's P8 uses digital oscillators too.)
Are you sure????

Dave uses CEM chips in the Evolver line and the P-08. I believed the oscillators were also from CEM.

Doug Curtis died within the past year if I recall but CEM was/is still alive albeit under a different name than it was originally.

I think the only thing digital in the P-08 are the controls whereas the Evolver uses A/D and D/A converters to route the signals to/from the digital and analog sections. The analog signals pass through A/D converters so the can be effected by the digital sections (e.g.- the high pass filter) and vice-versa.
Ensoniq SQ80, DSI Poly Evolver Keyboard, DSI Evolver Desktop, Alesis Ion, Kawai K5, Yamaha CS-6x, Yamaha DX-200, Akai Z4, Roland R8 & R8M, Mellotron 4-Track (sold), DSI Mopho x4, Waldorf Blofeld, Waldorf Streichfett, DSI Tempest, Moog FreqBox

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Kevin Lightner
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Post by Kevin Lightner » Fri May 02, 2008 1:40 pm

Thanks, Dada.

However there's much debate about DCOs and VCOs and Dave Smith's site doesn't make it much easier by calling them analog oscillators.

Here's the way I (and many others) look at the debate:
A DCO takes in digital and outputs digital which is treated as an analog signal.
A VCO takes in analog and outputs analog.

What's the difference?

Well take the Juno 106 for example.
Many people will swear that they're analog oscillators and cite "digitally controlled" as them being analog oscillators, but just under digital control.
This is misleading or wishful thinking.
The 106 uses the same clock signal to generate all oscillations via digital counter chips.
That means everything is phase-locked.
If you play a note in one octave and the same note an octave lower, they don't beat.
They can't.
They're locked to each other at the source.
Same if in unison- no movement or beating (unless you cheat and turn on the chorus, but it's not the same thing.)

On a real VCO synth, the oscillations are asynchronous.
They can vary slightly in pitch and phase and make for a fatter sound.
A minimoog with three VCOs tuned together is going to sound a lot fatter than a 106 with all six DCOs in unison.

Another difference is that it's much easier to modulate VCOs with other signals.
Absent on many DCO synths is the ability to route envelopes to the pitches or do cross modulation.

So while a DCO outputs a signal that can be filtered by analog means, that doesn't make it an analog oscillator.
A CD player also outputs analog signals that started as digital.

Maskin
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Post by Maskin » Fri May 02, 2008 1:54 pm

Wow, thanks Kevin!

This information might jeopardize my decision on buying a Prophet '08 but it's an interesting explainantion. :)
[size=75]"I like to play with electronic noise makers. I hope someone wants to listen, and if not, I'll still be up at 3 am making sequences in the dark, drinking coffee, and burning expensive incense." [i]Rod Modell[/i][/size]

rnbeatz
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Analog Multi Effects

Post by rnbeatz » Fri May 02, 2008 2:32 pm

I would like to see a rackmount/tabletop (ala RME) 2-rackspace analog multi-effects unit with a LP inspired interface. Add four assignable analog I/O and four assignable CV inputs and outputs, midi and/or USB. Put in it the analog delay, phaser, a few other MF pedal circuits, and a new chorus and flange.

Let it have enough presets to store an effects patch for every patch in a voyager and chain them through midi as if the two units were one synth with multi-effects. The ability to link two units to make a stereo unit would be cool too for the Voyager owners. And, lets not forget a patch editor.

This, a LP or Voyager and the MP-201 would be a dream system.

ARP
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Post by ARP » Fri May 02, 2008 5:27 pm

Maskin wrote:Wow, thanks Kevin!

This information might jeopardize my decision on buying a Prophet '08 but it's an interesting explainantion. :)
DCO's not withstanding, the P-08 is a great sounding synth and is currently on my must own list along with the LP II when it is released.
"Although they heard the music..they didn't understand the tune"

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MC
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Post by MC » Fri May 02, 2008 5:43 pm

I auditioned a P'08 and was less than impressed.

The 2-pole/12dB filter has little or no resonance, the knob does almost nothing. The 4-pole/24dB filter does have resonance, but the quality of the resonance is not very colorful.

I have a couple of "acid test" patches I use on analog synths - choir and brass. Choir patches demand a good resonant filter, the P'08 can't do it.

Brass patches are another acid test for the filter, and also for the control relationship between EG and VCO when I "blip" the pitch of a VCO with the EG. It's a real delicate setting, with right amount of modulation depth and attack/decay transient settings. Sadly, the P'08 failed there too. The control relationship was wrong, and the modulation depth was way too coarse - I had it on "1" and couldn't get any finer resolution. It didn't help that it had a poor 12dB filter because they work best with brass timbres.

Very disappointing...

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