patches that create singing vowels ?

In a Moog Mood? Here's a forum for discussion of general Moog topics.
rarecomponent
Posts: 163
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:17 am
Location: Derbyshire England

patches that create singing vowels ?

Post by rarecomponent » Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:54 am

How were the "singing vowels" patched in the early modulars?
I see that most early modulars only had one band pass filter so how was this achieved ?
Was the fixed filter bank utilised?

User avatar
stiiiiiiive
Posts: 2241
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 2:58 pm
Contact:

Re: patches that create singing vowels ?

Post by stiiiiiiive » Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:18 am

When I was a Clavia Nord Modular/G2 geek, I remember having tried to reproduce some basic formant filter. For that purpose, I searched some useful information about how vowels are formed.
Vowels are consequence of the shape of many resonators, the most important of which is the mouth cavity. The shape determines which frequencies will be emphasized, and a combination of certain frequencies will lead to a certain vowel.

I remember reading that any vowel can be accurately modelled by using 4-5 bandpass ffilters in parallel. However, the first 2 frequency peaks are the most characterisitc and two well tuned filters can do 75% of the job.

So… you only have to find that formant frequency-per-vowel table online, and experiment with at least two BPF :)

User avatar
stiiiiiiive
Posts: 2241
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 2:58 pm
Contact:

Re: patches that create singing vowels ?

Post by stiiiiiiive » Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:19 am

Oh… phasers and flangers can, under certains static settings, act as combfilters and give you what you want.

User avatar
Portamental
Posts: 888
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2009 8:53 am

Re: patches that create singing vowels ?

Post by Portamental » Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:22 am

The MF-105-M MURF is pretty good at voweling.

User avatar
MC
Posts: 2874
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 2:20 pm
Location: Secluded Tranquil Country

Re: patches that create singing vowels ?

Post by MC » Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:16 pm

If you're into modulars then there are formant filters you can purchase. Cwejman makes a four band VC resonant filter bank that is good for formant sounds

http://www.cwejman.net/res-4.htm

The only non-modular synth I remember that had a formant filter was the very rare Synton Syrinx. Any multi-timbral synth with a multimode filter could do formant filter using layering (at the expense of polyphony)

Choir and vowel sounds are the "acid test" of a good filter. When I am auditioning a synth it is one of the first patches I will try to dial up.

And yes the 105M does do good formant filtering but you don't have width control of the bands.
Gear list: '04 Saturn Ion, John Deere X300 tractor, ganged set of seven reel mowers for 3 acres of lawn, herd of sheep for backup lawn mowers, two tiger cats for mouse population control Oh you meant MUSIC gear Oops I hit the 255 character limi

User avatar
GregAE
Posts: 1575
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2003 8:44 pm
Location: In the studio, of course

Re: patches that create singing vowels ?

Post by GregAE » Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:48 pm

Slightly OT, but maybe valuable for Voyager owners looking for these -

The Voyager has a number of examples of vowel-sound patches in the factory banks. Among them:

Zon Bank:
RoboVox
Vowel bass
Funny Vox
Bo

Electric Blue Bank:
Vocal PulseMod
Tomitavox

RME Bank:
Asao’s Cakewalk

Of course, this is not an exhaustive list – just a few of the patches I quickly identified in the factory banks.

- Greg
KnobTweak - The Moog Gear & App Resource
A place to share Patches, Setups, Techniques, Instruction, Ideas and more...

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/KnobTweak

User avatar
fyvewytches
Posts: 267
Joined: Mon May 30, 2011 6:38 pm

Re: patches that create singing vowels ?

Post by fyvewytches » Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:21 pm

Yves Usson (Mr. Minibrute) has a web page showing the filter settings for some vowels here: http://yusynth.net/VocalFilter/ForVoc.html

This page also has a formant frequency chart: http://www.marksmart.net/sounddesign/choirsounds/choirsounds.html.
Latest track, Dancing On The Ecliptic http://soundcloud.com/ianman/dancing-on-the-ecliptic-demo

User avatar
misterpete
Posts: 381
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:16 am

Re: patches that create singing vowels ?

Post by misterpete » Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:32 pm

excellent! thanx for this!!! 8)
fyvewytches wrote:Yves Usson (Mr. Minibrute) has a web page showing the filter settings for some vowels here: http://yusynth.net/VocalFilter/ForVoc.html

This page also has a formant frequency chart: http://www.marksmart.net/sounddesign/choirsounds/choirsounds.html.
Please Call Me, PETE
https://petedako.bandcamp.com/music
"Mr. Pete" at MuffWiggler |@petedako on Twitter

Ledbetter
Posts: 192
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 7:18 pm

Re: patches that create singing vowels ?

Post by Ledbetter » Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:23 pm

Cool thread. The Roland AX09 has a "scat singing" patch. The syllables go from " ooh" to "BOW" depending on velocity. Digital though. I use CV control pedal on the Voyager to make vocal-like tone changes.
Former owner of Prodigy #2845 (purchased new, long ago), Animoog, Voyager Select (Fire & Maple), Little and Slim Phatties, Nord Electro 4D, 5D and Lead 2X, Roland AX-9.

ebo
Posts: 135
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2009 8:41 pm

Re: patches that create singing vowels ?

Post by ebo » Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:36 pm

the Grendel is a nice Formant Filter
http://youtu.be/SC80S3AVVb0

User avatar
tommyecho
Posts: 157
Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2011 11:00 am

Re: patches that create singing vowels ?

Post by tommyecho » Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:02 am

Here's a demo I did Running a sawtooth from the voyager XL, with the ladder filter open, into Eric Archer's Grendel formant filter. I'm using the X and Y outs from the touchpad to control the filter, which works really well!

https://soundcloud.com/tommyecho/formants
THE GOLDEN MINIMOOG VOYAGER #31

User avatar
misterpete
Posts: 381
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:16 am

Re: patches that create singing vowels ?

Post by misterpete » Fri Apr 12, 2013 5:05 pm

Really nice work on the Cloud Tommy and thanks for you folks pointing out Eric Archer and his Grendel filter - is he a member of this forum, too? Sorry if it's a little off-topic but this video piece is a mindblower: https://vimeo.com/11885641

You can definitely get lots of great formant sounds with the Voyager filters alone starting with the VOX patches listed and a CP251 and maybe a MF-103 phaser ~ but that Grendel filter is something else again, and makes me suddenly want to start picking up some eurorack gear...
Worth mentioning, if you are using digital soft synths the formant filters in U-HE Zebra (from Urs Heckmann) are superb. 8)
tommyecho wrote:Here's a demo I did Running a sawtooth from the voyager XL, with the ladder filter open, into Eric Archer's Grendel formant filter. I'm using the X and Y outs from the touchpad to control the filter, which works really well!

https://soundcloud.com/tommyecho/formants
Please Call Me, PETE
https://petedako.bandcamp.com/music
"Mr. Pete" at MuffWiggler |@petedako on Twitter

User avatar
misterpete
Posts: 381
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:16 am

Re: patches that create singing vowels ?

Post by misterpete » Sat Apr 13, 2013 11:32 pm

is there a comb filter in the MF-108 ClusterFlux? It sure sounds like it to me!
stiiiiiiive wrote:Oh… phasers and flangers can, under certains static settings, act as combfilters and give you what you want.

If you dial it in right with the regular Voyager filters, you will find those formant sounds... and with the ClusterFlux, the Phaser and/or the Band Pass filter in the MiniBrute combinations you can really hear those vowel formant filter sounds, as well... i think maybe having a second LFO to modulate helps, too, like a CP-251 or LFO 2 in the XL - unfortunately I am not much of a scientist - i tend to dial in the sounds I'm 'looking for' with my ears rather than patch charts... but I found a great SOS article on formants and synthesis here: http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar01/a ... nthsec.asp
Please Call Me, PETE
https://petedako.bandcamp.com/music
"Mr. Pete" at MuffWiggler |@petedako on Twitter

User avatar
stiiiiiiive
Posts: 2241
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 2:58 pm
Contact:

Re: patches that create singing vowels ?

Post by stiiiiiiive » Sun Apr 14, 2013 4:15 am

misterpete wrote:is there a comb filter in the MF-108 ClusterFlux? It sure sounds like it to me!

And you hear well because -actually- a flanger is a combfilter which time setting is LFOed.

rarecomponent
Posts: 163
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:17 am
Location: Derbyshire England

Re: patches that create singing vowels ?

Post by rarecomponent » Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:07 am

Thanks for the replies. I guess the early 70's modulars must have used a combination of 904 C band pass / Fixed filter bank / and maybe the 923? There's not much info out there

Post Reply