Want breath control for your Moog??

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jonte
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Want breath control for your Moog??

Post by jonte » Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:37 am

Breath control is an amazing way to add expression to a performance, however it seems to be a relatively unexplored means to control a Moog? I own a Yamaha CS01 synth together with the Yamaha BC1 breath controller (http://youtu.be/USPtkeFh_Gk) and that is a great combo. However the BC1 doesn't work to control the CV inputs of my Moog synth (I guess the voltages are just different), which is frustrating because I know it would be really great to control the Moog's filter and volume via breath!

Swedish company TEControl makes a breath controller for use with software synths: http://tecontrol.se/index_files/USBMIDI ... roller.htm. It converts breath pressure to a MIDI value which it outputs via a usb stick.
A much simpler thing to make would be a breath controller that outputs CV 0-5V which then could be used to control the filter and volume of a Moog synth. But no one seems to make such a simple device??

I contacted TEControl and told them I wanted a device for breath control with CV output and they told me it would be simple to make and that it could be something for them to do but also told me they need to "concentrate on things that generate money, do you really think someone more than you would be interested?".

Well, that's why I write here basically, to see if I really am alone in this "need" of a breath controller for my Moog, or if we are enough people interested in this to convince the people at TEControl to develop and sell it to us?!

ricknboogie
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Re: Want breath control for your Moog??

Post by ricknboogie » Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:47 pm

I have several non-Moog synths that have breath control, but never knew exactly what type of controller I needed to make that work. So much to know.

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MC
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Re: Want breath control for your Moog??

Post by MC » Wed Apr 03, 2013 2:32 pm

Yamaha breath controller to CV converter

http://www.retrosynth.com/~analoguedieh ... roller.jpg
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jonte
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Re: Want breath control for your Moog??

Post by jonte » Wed Apr 03, 2013 5:15 pm

MC: Thank you so much, I will try that ASAP! :)
And then maybe add a CP-251 to split and adjust the signal so I can control both volume, filter and maybe some slight increase in pitch if I blow hard enough... wonder if that's possible. It would also be cool to experiment with splitting the signal to control different moogerfooger parameters etc.

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Piktor
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Re: Want breath control for your Moog??

Post by Piktor » Thu Apr 04, 2013 2:12 am

A breath controller for any synth is a great thing, but I believe that you do require a means for converting the midi control message into a voltage control. I have used a Yamaha BC2 breath controller with a Multimoog. The chain is midikeyboard controller to Yamaha MCS2/BC2 combo to a Roland MPU 101 (midi to voltage unit) to the Multimoog. The Multimoog has inputs to control oscillator pitch, touch mod effects and filter. There is no input for amplitude, but I would never play a none velocity sensitive synth without a volume pedal anyway. You could run other instruments into the Multi's audio input and use breath control to manipulate the Moog's filter. e.g. breath controlled wah on a guitar. For some things, a breath controller is very natural. Too bad it seems to have fallen by the wayside. (In a similar vein, I also have an old Oberheim Matrix 6 that responds to RELEASE velocity. I'm also sorry that no one seemed to find that function useful either [afaik]. It is great for controlling release rates on pad sounds.) But, I digress...

P

jonte
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Re: Want breath control for your Moog??

Post by jonte » Thu Apr 04, 2013 4:49 am

Piktor: Since the Yamaha breath controllers output CV you shouldn't have to go via MIDI at all. You really only need some small device to convert the -9V of the Yamahas to the 0-5V+ that the Moogs use, as in MCs post.
Release velocity: What a great idea! Never heard about that before :)

Just Me
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Re: Want breath control for your Moog??

Post by Just Me » Thu Apr 04, 2013 9:34 am

Waldorf Blofeld has release velocity. So did Chroma and some Ensoniq.
"Music expresses that which can not be said and on which it is impossible to be silent."

mrtaudio
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Re: Want breath control for your Moog??

Post by mrtaudio » Mon Apr 29, 2013 5:07 pm

Headset of Mrtaudio midi breath controller system works 0-5v range maybe this headset jack convertible for moog cv input. But you cannot adjust gain or offset. http://www.mrtaudio.com must use midi converter box if your device have midi input.

GovernorSilver
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Re: Want breath control for your Moog??

Post by GovernorSilver » Tue May 07, 2013 3:03 pm

mrtaudio wrote:Headset of Mrtaudio midi breath controller system works 0-5v range maybe this headset jack convertible for moog cv input. But you cannot adjust gain or offset. http://www.mrtaudio.com must use midi converter box if your device have midi input.
Any chance of selling just the headset?

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_DemonDan_
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Re: Want breath control for your Moog??

Post by _DemonDan_ » Tue May 07, 2013 4:18 pm

Piktor wrote:I also have an old Oberheim Matrix 6 that responds to RELEASE velocity.
I'm also sorry that no one seemed to find that function useful either [afaik].
It is great for controlling release rates on pad sounds.
Hi Piktor,

All of the Kurzweil keyboards that feature VAST have Release Velocity as a control
source for any parameter that can be modulated (which is almost all of them).
I agree with you that it's a sadly overlooked control source.

And don't even get me started on how depressing it is that Yamaha synths no longer
have Breath Controller inputs. (PC3, PC3K, and K-Series Kurzweils still have them.)

And then there's Polyphonic Aftertouch, which I believe should be received by every
polyphonic synth, even if their built-in keyboard doesn't transmit it. (Kurzweils
receive that too.)
_ :twisted: _DemonDan_ :twisted: _

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Piktor
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Re: Want breath control for your Moog??

Post by Piktor » Wed May 08, 2013 1:09 am

All of the Kurzweil keyboards that feature VAST have Release Velocity as a control
source for any parameter that can be modulated (which is almost all of them).
I agree with you that it's a sadly overlooked control source.


Thanks Demon Dan. Clearly, I don't around enough.

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misterpete
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Re: Want breath control for your Moog??

Post by misterpete » Wed May 22, 2013 4:33 pm

D'OH! - my friend just built me one of these for my Yamaha BNC and I discovered it is something I really can't use unless as he says... with all those toys in there Pete you have to have something that you can plug it into...

Was hoping to plug it into a Voyager or whaterver jack ~ just like an EP-1 but nuttin happens!

What the heck is a MIDI board? - How do you get the BNC to blow out :roll: CV?
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MC
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Re: Want breath control for your Moog??

Post by MC » Wed May 22, 2013 5:32 pm

misterpete wrote:What the heck is a MIDI board? - How do you get the BNC to blow out :roll: CV?
I copied a page from my Kurzweil MIDIBoard manual that describes a circuit that converts the BC signal to a 0-5V CV. That's what the link is.
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misterpete
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Re: Want breath control for your Moog??

Post by misterpete » Wed May 22, 2013 6:16 pm

ahhh thanks MC... so is there a way to make the magic happen WITHOUT the Kurzweil MIDIBoard?

EDIT: I have the DX-7 but it would be cool to make it work with the MOOGs of course... :D
MC wrote:
misterpete wrote:What the heck is a MIDI board? - How do you get the BNC to blow out :roll: CV?
I copied a page from my Kurzweil MIDIBoard manual that describes a circuit that converts the BC signal to a 0-5V CV. That's what the link is.
Please Call Me, PETE
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MC
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Re: Want breath control for your Moog??

Post by MC » Wed May 22, 2013 7:17 pm

That circuit is standalone and is not part of the MIDIBoard. I built it into a box.
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