Over Priced

martin · Post by **martin** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 2:15 pm

agreed - it is comparable to a porsche. the quality of the synthesizer is just awesome. try twiddling the knobs, listening to the killer filter through a good monitoring system. it just kicks butt.

had i not received a lemon, i would be quite a bit more positive about it. the fact that there were early models that were shipped to the uk (i don't know if other countries received these buggy units) made me doubt very much that i had made a good purchse decision. probably this occurred to other users, too.

i don`t understand why these instruments were shipped in such an unfinished state. it just doesn't make sense. plus, it justifies my point that the voyagers are overpriced.

oh - another thing. the warranty times of the performer and signature editions were very different, same with the price. why? because of the signature? ok, that's fine if you want the signature. but paying 1000 quid for it? i got a signature from the good doctor in london, and it cost me nothing. just had to ask for it.

yet, the warranty time for a sig is 4 years and for the performer only one, although they are technically identical. just because i had ordered a performer, i only got 1 years' warranty - by this time there were a couple os updates. only after installing all the updates did some issues and problems creep up. that made me doubt my decision again. I am still waiting for a nice word, an apology, something. it was all a big fight, just to get it up to shape. plus i had to cough up more cash. why?

as for selling the synthesizer in a shop, it should indeed be presented by an enthusiast, someone who knows what it can do. it should receive a special room and be connected to decent speakers and headphones and fx. and you should be allowed to try it out in a special moog booth so no one can disturb you while you try it out.

as i said before, i like the sound of this baby, and i think it would have been a good decision. but why did it have to be such a fight?

martin

Qwave · Post by **Qwave** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 2:27 pm

The Voyager only appears to be overpriced if you just check the number of knobs and the list of synth features. But the value of nice sound, great UI, beautifull wooden (not plastic!) housing with some parts in metal. Real analogue envelopes - not digital generated envelopes - that drive the filter straight and without a D/A converter like on so many other synths.
The Voyager was shocking expensive for me too. Till I was sitting in front of one. Then I knew, that it is an _INSTRUMENT_ (not an apparatus) in the class of a real Minimoog (I own one too).
If one don't cares for these points, then you just don't need to save on the Voyager.

martin · Post by **martin** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 2:35 pm

@thewaag

my reasoning is quite simple - again, without wanting to diminish the good moog name, *any* synthesizer that costs 2000 uk pounds and still has a defect such as with the pich bend is overpriced, period. it should not have such issues. pitch bending is no new technology. it has been around for a while. i just think it should have never left the factory. i am still under the impression that the uk units were shipped untested and/or unfixed.

and when i am asked to pay for shipment to have a "voluntary upgrade" done and pay for this "voluntary upgrade" too, then that is unacceptable for this price.

on the upside, the instrument has the best sound of any synthesizer i have ever owned. it doesn't even need effects. that's how good it is. it looks beautiful, the knobs are smooth and sturdy, and the whole thing is just fun to play around with.

regarding modulars - even if a dotcom hasnt't got a keyboard, that would still not be an issue. controller keyboards are available in abundance. and modules that are broken can be easily replaced. shipping a moog voyager is a big deal.

martin

OysterRock · Post by **OysterRock** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 2:37 pm

martin wrote: i don`t understand why these instruments were shipped in such an unfinished state. it just doesn't make sense. plus, it justifies my point that the voyagers are overpriced.

Can you explain what you mean here? Is it the fact the the first Voyagers had bugs? Well ALL companies, whether they make hardware or software, release products that still have bugs, its a fact of life. It is unavoidable, you can't catch everything. Future updates (hardware and software) solve the problems initial models had. That is just how the electronics world works.

Or is that the Voyager doesn't have CV outputs? I saw in an interview that Bob left them off to keep the price down. Makes sense to me, as not everyone will want modular capabilities.

thewaag · Post by **thewaag** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 2:51 pm

Martin,

Gotcha!!

From what I am understanding, you are saying that you would not consider the Voyager overpriced if yours had come working properly. Too bad you had such a bad experience. Sounds like maybe they could have handled your situation differently.

OVERALL, however, you have got to admit that while it is expensive, the Voyager is not priced that far out of line for what it is; a specialized analog synth that is made in relatively small quantities.

Now another bone to pick with you....

Have you ever seen the box that a 44 space .com synthesizer comes in? Certainly individual or small groups of modules can be shipped much easier than a Mini, but if you buy a complete 22 or 44 rack model, the shipping box is HUGE.

Just having some lively debate with you Martin. As one other poster said on this thread, you have been a well spoken gentleman throughout.....

MarkM · Post by **MarkM** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 2:51 pm

As somebody already mentioned, Moog is a tiny shop compared to Roland, Korg, etc. They don't send it to China or Indonesia to be assembled. And it is not the average keyboardist's cup of tea. They want all-purpose machines that can sound close to a Rhodes, Steinway, Hammond, etc. That's not what this machine is about. To reduce the price they would have to sell thousands more a year. The Voyager is in the same basic price range as other specialty synths like the Polyevolver. Here in the states the support is outstanding from Moog. Can you say that about Yamaha or Roland? What will be intereresting is what the price of a used Voyager will be 10 years from now. I wonder if the Triton (percentage wise) will hold up?

martin · Post by **martin** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 2:53 pm

well, as was the case with mi unit, the pitch bend was maladjusted, and the touchscreen was screwed in a way that only transpired later.
i don't really mind minor bugs, but the pitch bend issue is a fairly obvious one. it's not hidden behind 20 menus. it should have been fixed right away.

again, i am in no way interested in flaming or yapping about this - please don't get me wrong.

my point is that such obvious bugs are a big deal when you have to ship a voyager back to the uk (i lived in ireland at the time) because of such an obvious bug. it incurs unneccesary costs and waiting times. who would like to part from their voyager after having waited for it half a year? i would not have minded waiting another month right from the start if i had received a 100% kosher synthesizer.

not having a moog dealer/mechanic in dublin just makes it hard to get stuff fixed.

so - although this synth is great and truly awesome sounding, my point is that it has not been a great pleasure to deal with such extra issues.

martin

martin · Post by **martin** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 3:07 pm

Agreed. Had my Voyager been 100% good, I would never have complained.
I have been lusting after a Moog synthesizer for most of my life. And I sold a *lot* of gear in order to afford it. I parted with every piece of kit in my studio. I had nothing left!

When it arrived, i just stood there looking at this thing and inhaling the woody scent. It must have looked weird, a guy getting half high on a synthesizer straight out of a box.

Regarding the 22 or 44 dotcom... i wouldn't mind having a truck pull up in front of my house and 5 guys carrying that thing in my direction.

but... i would not be depressed to see the same 5 guys carrying a brand new 22 studio system with the moog basge on it in my direction!

martin

ebg31 · Post by **ebg31** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 3:20 pm

It's a bit ridiculous in some ways that the only instrument to come close to the Voyager's price tag is the DSI Poly Evolver Keyboard. Clearly, it's a different ratio, considering the use of voice chips, instead of hard-wired components, but keep in mind that it's only quadrophonic. I'd imagine that they pay the same attention to detail and reliability that the Moog people are now putting into the Voyager.

Of course, aren't all the Voyagers hand made? Isn't it also the same with the whole Evolver series? DSI and Moog may be high-profile companies with a legacy, but they're still private businesses. And, if they were bigger than they are, the products wouldn't be nearly as good.

Somewhere along the way, one manufacturer or another will attempt to build a series of economic instruments indirectly related to the Sequential Circuits Prophet 600 and Pro One. Instruments that could be as affordable as the Ion, MS-2000B and Novation X-Station, but with real analog innards. That would tilt the analog scales more towards the mass market and away from gear like the Voyager, Poly Evolver and Alesis A6.

thewaag · Post by **thewaag** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 3:25 pm

It must have looked weird, a guy getting half high on a synthesizer straight out of a box.

Not to me!!

On this we absolutely see eye to eye--I understand completely. I am also known to smell the case of my lovely acoustic guitar when I first open it. I just love that smell of wood and varnish!

martin · Post by **martin** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 3:56 pm

to conclude the "overpriced" issue - i think you only perceive an "overpriced" feeling when something's wrong. I have eaten disgusting food and bought crap cds and purchased sandals that fell apart within a week. all of these things were only "overpriced" because they weren't what i expected them to be. same thing here. i was expecting an unbugful instrument.

i put all my trust in moog music and was disappointed that i had to fight for the quality i had expected.

just hope they'll have more good stuff in the pipeline. next time i will wait, wait, wait and *not* buy an early version of anything.

http://mp3.de/musik/genre/band/120600/6834/3

Lengai · Post by **Lengai** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 5:44 pm

why should we market them ? they are over priced , We can't keep the ION in stock but the Voyager collected dust , now the Elitists at Moog have a Upgrade that will cost you plenty.
Moog is a cult for people with their heads on backwards.Moog Voyager is a over priced failure.

how many units have sold ?

suede,

It seems extremely odd that a business person would ask the question, "Why should we market them?" The Porsche vs. Hyaundai comparison is an easy and accurate conceptual model for the Voyager's price. Shouldn't you be asking the same question about the Andromeda A6 that you are applying to the Voyager? They are the same price and I'm certain that IONs sell a lot more than A6s in your store as well so the Voyager argument you made is illogical.

Now, looking at this in a logical manner, it makes very little sense for a buisness man to go to a forum where he knows that his opinion is not agreed upon and start this post.

So, what that would leave is either a very unintelligent person which I'm sure you are not or it would mean that this person has a similar behavior pattern to an arsonist. An arsonist burns a property to feel powerful by what they have created because they are inadequate in life so maybe all this is is a attempt to post something that would cause an adverse reaction so you can sit back and look at the thread and somehow try and feel powerful.

Either way it's a moot point.

thewaag · Post by **thewaag** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 5:58 pm

OUCH!!!

nigeynige · Post by **nigeynige** » Sat Sep 03, 2005 5:01 am

I have played many synths, bought loads and after a thread started claiming "Overpriced", I see this an ongoing debate between people who don't understand the power and craftsmanship of the Voyager and those who realise the potential of it. You buy an instrument like the Voyager and it cuts through anything. I've tried to emulate Moog sounds with JP8000's, JD800's, Korgs, Yamaha's, Novation's, used samples, Moog modular plug in, Mini plug in.........shall I go on-----NAH!...

Just to make the point. Until I put my Voyager against those synths, they sounded fine....Now.....they are a poor emulation of a great synth.
I think what we have here is a situation where someone is unhappy with their Moog. Had there been a forum for Yamaha, Korg or any other keyboard site to express anger and discontentment with their gear.........it would have taken days just to get to the end of the threads. I would have been a constant contributor.
Well I for one am Happy.....I love the instrument and appreciate it's value. If you don't want to pay that kind of money for a synth, Then Don't.
It's a simple as that. Buy something that you feel is adequately priced.

As for not being able to sell the Voyager in a store, then my argument would be.....learn more about it, understand it's capabilities and just show the customers it's power and capabilities along side gear like the Alesis ION (which in my humble opinion is like the Trinity and Triton----take the effects off and it's limp and weak).There is one is SOS publication for £320...enough said

Sorry to take up any of your time if you read this, but for a salesman to post his complaints on this site, I think it's bad ettiquette and he should be dismissed.....and if he was man enough(it's easy to post on a forum anonymously)....take the point up with his boss or Moog...

Nigel Hopkins

boose44 · Post by **boose44** » Sat Sep 03, 2005 6:41 am

For me the issue was never that it was "overpriced". When they Voyager first came out three years ago my marriage was ending and I had two teenage sons. I worked long hours for a small company making peanuts.

The Voyager was simply more than I was able to plop down for a synth as we had other places I needed to spend the money. Big deal. I wasn't able able to buy a Porsche then, either.

But I didn't feel betrayed by Moog, or angry about it. That's just the way the world works. There are a lot of things I would like to have -- but just can't afford them. Bob Moog & company can certainly charge as much as they want for what they produce. Same goes for another other manufacturer, really.

Flash forward three years. The wife and I are divorced, and the boys are grown and gone. Software I had been working on since like the 386 days attracts the attention of a large company, and I find myself in a great job making a nice salary. I move in with my fiance and we buy a home on a lake, two cars, a boat, and a strange looking little dog -- mostly paid with cash. A lot can happen in just three years, you just never know.

Anyway, now a Voyager is an entirely different proposition. It was always worth it to me, but now I am also willing and able to purchase one. So after salivating over a Moog since I was a teenager in the early 70's, I find a Voyager at a price I'm willing to pay (under 2500!) and I buy it. End of story. Life is good.

Nothing is really over-priced. It's all about the value you percieve an item to be worth to you and what you are willing or able to pay.

-bruce

Moog Music Forum

Over Priced

Ouch indeed! I can hear the tumbleweeds let alone see them