prototype

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JohnLRice
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Re: prototype

Post by JohnLRice » Sat Feb 02, 2013 6:17 am

Yeah, sounded great to me. I think if it also had CV and Gate out on 1/4" jacks it would be a perfect synth to me, but a majority of people don't need CV+Gate out . . . yet! :twisted:
John L Rice
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mico
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Re: prototype

Post by mico » Sat Feb 02, 2013 7:57 am

I really hope they implement an arpeggiator in a firmware update as part of the 'under the hood' features. That would very much tickle my fancy.
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EMwhite
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Re: prototype

Post by EMwhite » Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:28 pm

I really like the sequencer idea I read here or over at Muffs; it mentioned leveraging the 8 preset/shift buttons.

Something like a) enter seq mode b) hold a step button and press a key c) once started, pressing buttons quickly toggle step on/off.

At some point Moog would do well to produce polycarb (arcade control panel material) overlays. I'd pay $29 for a properly produced overlay timed with a major release of firmware. This little bugger is powerful and it's just the beginning!
'76 Minimoog, Taurus 3, Oberheim FVS + Son of 2-voice; Sequential ProOne; Juno 106; Moog Model 15; Kurzweil 250; Hammond M3; and a handful of Fender Basses Flickr!

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dswo
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Re: prototype

Post by dswo » Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:33 pm

EMwhite wrote:I'd pay $29 for a properly produced overlay timed with a major release of firmware.


Me too.
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Re: prototype

Post by ColorForm2113 » Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:40 pm

EMwhite wrote:I really like the sequencer idea I read here or over at Muffs;
that was me
:D
I dont remember which of the 47 sub phatty threads I posted that in...but its here somewhere lol
My modular so far: Q104, Q106 x2, Q107, Q108, Q109 x2 , Q116, Q118, Q127 w/Q140, Q130, STG Wave Folder, Mixer and Mankato playing with Moog Voyager, VX-351, CP-251, MF-104M x2 ( STEREO!) Volca Beats and Bass, Arturia Beat step

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museslave
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Re: prototype

Post by museslave » Sat Feb 02, 2013 6:19 pm

I am rubbing my eyes. Did I see someone say "thin and nasal?" Wow. I don't know what demos you've been watching (I haven't watched any of them, actually... I prefer to do my demos without influence!), but as a person who has now had a fair amount of experience of the Sub Phatty, I promise you that you'd have a very difficult time getting a thin OR nasal sound out of this thing. To be honest, I wish it had even the slightest ability to be thin or nasal. It is one of the thickest, gloppiest, richest, butteryest, etc. Moogs I've heard in a long time. Let's just say that none of the new small inexpensive monosynth contenders approach this synth in regard to warmth and chunk.

As for monophonic... I know it's everyone's dream to have a Moog polyphonic... and I understand that. But a monophonic synthesizer is a different instrument than a polyphonic synthesizer. It is not a progression like: "Well, at first it could only do one note at a time, and now it can do many!" The first Moog modular prototype was polyphonic. Bob decided it should be monophonic because he found the modulations more useful and interesting with monophony. It's fine if people can't do what they need to with a monophonic. It is a different playing approach, and a different programming approach. But please don't think that a monophonic synth is inferior. Many of us think it's superior.

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JohnLRice
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Re: prototype

Post by JohnLRice » Sat Feb 02, 2013 7:47 pm

museslave wrote: Did I see someone say "thin and nasal?" Wow. I don't know what demos you've been watching (I haven't watched any of them, actually... I prefer to do my demos without influence!), but as a person who has now had a fair amount of experience of the Sub Phatty, I promise you that you'd have a very difficult time getting a thin OR nasal sound out of this thing.
Well, I still stand by ALL comments I've made about the Sub Fatty. They are simply my opinions, so there is no need to defend them. I also think that if it is difficult to get thin sounds out of any synthesizer, then that synthesizer is fairly limited. I don't think this is the case with the Sub Phatty, just sayin'. "Thin" isn't always bad and "fat" isn't always good. All sounds are good and useful, thin/fat, warm/cold, clean/distorted, rough/smooth, sparkly/dull, short/long, sweet/sour, Moog/otherwise etc etc and I would hope that Moog and its supporters would encourage all synthesists to explore and be creative, not just latch on to trends and buzz words.
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Voltor07
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Re: prototype

Post by Voltor07 » Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:14 pm

I agree, John. I bought a Little Phatty for that Moog sound. I bought a Taurus 3 for that Taurus sound. I bought a Lowrey for that cheesy thin organ sound. I'm building a .com modular for that Arrick sound...which can vary depending on envelopes, filters, etc. Each synth can make sounds that are difficult to reproduce on other synths. That is the beauty of multiple synths. :)
Sub 37 #000068, Minitaur, CP-251, MF-102&103, EHX #1 Echo, EHX Space Drums/Crash Pads, QSC GX-3, Miracle Pianos, Walking Stick ribbon controller, Synthutron.com, Lowrey Teenie Genie.

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museslave
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Re: prototype

Post by museslave » Sun Feb 03, 2013 1:20 pm

JohnLRice wrote:Well, I still stand by ALL comments I've made about the Sub Fatty. They are simply my opinions, so there is no need to defend them. I also think that if it is difficult to get thin sounds out of any synthesizer, then that synthesizer is fairly limited. I don't think this is the case with the Sub Phatty, just sayin'. "Thin" isn't always bad and "fat" isn't always good. All sounds are good and useful, thin/fat, warm/cold, clean/distorted, rough/smooth, sparkly/dull, short/long, sweet/sour, Moog/otherwise etc etc and I would hope that Moog and its supporters would encourage all synthesists to explore and be creative, not just latch on to trends and buzz words.


It wasn't my intent to question your opinion, it was my intent to describe my experience with the Sub Fatty— because I currently have one in my possession. As a person who demonstrates synthesizers, I work very hard to make sure people have an objective experience of the synthesizers I demonstrate. I have a lot of opinions about them, but I try to describe their sound and functionality as objectively as possible. In that spirit, it is important for people to understand that this particular synthesizer has a very full, deep, rich, wide sound. I say this to draw a distinction between several other recent synthesizers of similar size and functionality.

I could rattle off all the ways that the Sub Phatty is not limited... and there are many. But to be honest, Moogs in general have never been particularly awesome at thin or nasal because of the 24dB per oct ladder filter. (of course, the Voyager has the ability to create a bandpass situation, but even so... its bandpass is the fattest bandpass ever) I don't think the Sub Phatty is limited because it can't do thin any more than I think the Minimoog is limited because it can't do sample and hold. These things aren't limitations, they're just features. With the Multidrive, the Sub Phatty is capable of some distorted and grating sounds... but compared to some other similar arrangements, the Phatty delivers this sound in Moog style. Which is why you would buy a Moog, right? :) It's not a limitation that Moogs have deep, full, rich sounding filters... it's exactly why you buy them. And probably why you've bought them. :)

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dswo
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Re: prototype

Post by dswo » Sun Feb 03, 2013 2:03 pm

Timing question

Thanks for that characterization, Marc. What you describe is exactly what I want. My only real question, at this stage, is "When should I order?" Here are my considerations:

- If you preorder now, you might get it sooner -- I say "might" on the hypothesis that there are already hundreds, if not thousands, of preorders for this thing and the Moog factory just isn't that big -- BUT there might be some manufacturing glitches in the first batch. Or is this just not an issue with Moog (the way it seems to have been with Arturia)?

- If you order later, the manufacturing process will be more refined AND there will be some reviews out BUT you will get it later -- maybe months later, depending on what the demand ends up being.

I realize there are a lot of variables. But there's also a lot of collective experience on this forum. How do folks expect the roll-out to proceed? I don't need this for the spring, but I would like to have it for this summer (when I have more time -- and more energy -- for playing).
Last edited by dswo on Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
David Wilson-Okamura

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Re: prototype

Post by Sir Nose » Sun Feb 03, 2013 9:20 pm

Unless a retailer is offering an exceptionally great deal (10% or more lower than standard street price) I think pre-order is a bad decision. I would usually wait till one year after release for things to get ironed out. Though, the sub phatty seems very straight forward compared to some synths and built upon past tech that has been refined. I would not expect much issues in terms of OS.

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Re: prototype

Post by EMwhite » Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:05 pm

I'll jump in with an opinion and say that from a manufacturing point of view, there will not be much to worry about. This is Moog's Nth new product across two years. Since Taurus 3, there has been steady ramp of processes from 'limited' quantity, high touch to higher quantity, low touch.

Have a look at the analog board of the Voyager and see how many adjustment points exist. Have a look at Minitaur and see how the firmware has calibration routines which are as simple as 'apply reference voltage and send a SysEx'.

If I'm not mistaken, Minitaur has sold multiple thousands (3000+) and there is still demand for it. I'm guessing that SubPhatty will take the best, and all knowledge of all products manufactured to date and better it. I can't speak for Arturia, but I'd wager that going from a OEM arrangement with CME to making a fully analog synth is a major step up and from the sounds of it, there were a few bumps?

But I am, like you, just a customer. I've been through the factory tour at the old building (on the river) and the new facility and I have one of just about everything that Moog made since Voyager (with the exception of the Guitar).

Whether you want to jump now and get in line or wait until later? I would wager that it will be easier/quicker to get one now than to try and get one in 3 months. As you said, it's a small shop, so no matter how efficient, they only produce x # a week and supply chain issues can pop up in any manufacturing line. If you are committed to yourself that you will be getting one, reach out to Carson @ Sweetwater or another major retailer and try to assess how many units they are getting vs. have pre-orders for.

Again, just one guys opinion; there will be others in 3... 2... 1...
'76 Minimoog, Taurus 3, Oberheim FVS + Son of 2-voice; Sequential ProOne; Juno 106; Moog Model 15; Kurzweil 250; Hammond M3; and a handful of Fender Basses Flickr!

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Re: prototype

Post by nectarios » Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:32 am

museslave wrote:I am rubbing my eyes. Did I see someone say "thin and nasal?" Wow. I don't know what demos you've been watching (I haven't watched any of them, actually... I prefer to do my demos without influence!), but as a person who has now had a fair amount of experience of the Sub Phatty, I promise you that you'd have a very difficult time getting a thin OR nasal sound out of this thing. To be honest, I wish it had even the slightest ability to be thin or nasal.

Off set a square wave's pulse width and you get thin and nasal. Very easy to do on a Moog synth. Thin and nasal sounds are useful in a mix that has phat sounds already.

Its a "tongue in cheek" comment obviously, but just saying that, luckily, you can get thin sounds out of a Moog synth. Which is another reason why I love my Slim Phatty and Minitaur with the VCF in high resonance settings and high cut off frequencies to make them fit in a mix and co exist with big synth patches.

I won't be getting the SubPhatty as it covers too same ground as my SP and Minitaur, but in any case, from what I can tell from the demos, it is a great sounding synth and if I did not already have an SP and Minitaur and a few good guitar overdrive pedals (and my moogerfoogers which I also use for overdrive), I would get the SubPhatty which also sports the VCO phase re-trigger function and kill two birds with one stone...even though the Phatty and the Minitaur are very different sounding synths and I love and use both of them, day in/day out, in my music.
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museslave
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Re: prototype

Post by museslave » Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:17 pm

nectarios wrote:Off set a square wave's pulse width and you get thin and nasal. Very easy to do on a Moog synth. Thin and nasal sounds are useful in a mix that has phat sounds already..


Gee, I don't know why I didn't think of that. Yeah, you're right.

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Re: prototype

Post by nectarios » Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:34 am

museslave wrote:
nectarios wrote:Off set a square wave's pulse width and you get thin and nasal. Very easy to do on a Moog synth. Thin and nasal sounds are useful in a mix that has phat sounds already..


Gee, I don't know why I didn't think of that. Yeah, you're right.

I was not trying to be a smart ass, that is why I said that it was a tongue in cheek comment. Reading posts on the internet is not so easy to understand what the other person means if you don't look at them when they express their views.
Eurorack, 5U, x0xb0x, Moog Slim Phatty, MF-102, MF-103, MF-108, CP-251, Beatstep Pro, Nord Lead 1, NI Maschine, MXR-104, ProCo RAT2, Big Muff π Bass, Logic Pro 9.
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts

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