vinyl

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unfiltered37
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vinyl

Post by unfiltered37 » Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:33 pm

Any of you guys still listen to vinyl? I am working on an album and put a lot of effort into doing everything in the analog domain. I want to put it out on vinyl, but I am not sure its possible to get any significant exposure without at least putting it on cd. So just wondering if any of you guys still have turntables and buy new records.

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Kenneth
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Re: vinyl

Post by Kenneth » Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:01 am

I have a record player at home and I do listen to vinyl. I only buy an album on vinyl if it is something I already know and love, due to the higher price of vinyl.
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EricK
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Re: vinyl

Post by EricK » Wed Jul 11, 2012 1:38 am

I listen to Vinyl when I get the chance.

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slabwax
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Re: vinyl

Post by slabwax » Wed Jul 11, 2012 2:36 am

When I want to sit down and seriously listen to music it's time for the turntable. It just sounds so much better.

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thealien666
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Re: vinyl

Post by thealien666 » Wed Jul 11, 2012 3:47 am

Yes, I also still have my trusty old Telefunken Direct Drive turntable from 1981.
I kept mostly my very favorite music on vinyl. Some Rush, Jean Michel Jarre, Led Zeppelin, Wendy Carlos, etc...

All this music sounds fantastic in my TLX 22/8 Studio Monitor speakers. :D
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Kevin Lightner
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Re: vinyl

Post by Kevin Lightner » Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:59 am

I think the answer can be found in who you're making the album for.
If your goal is to be heard- to be noticed amongst thousands of other artists- there's no question it must be released in a format that is most accessible, ie: CD or download.
But if you feel that your music is not adequately described unless played on vinyl, you will feel that you compromised your artistry for accessibility.
That is, you won't feel like you expressed yourself fully or that others will not hear what you intended for them to hear.

My suggestion is to master it for digital release to see if others appreciate it enough to also buy as vinyl.
If there's enough interest digitally, a small percentage will pay a premium for it on vinyl too.
But in today's world, even if you wrote the equal of Dark Side of the Moon, there would be too few exposed to it if only released on vinyl.

As to your question, I do own a turntable.
It's a Micro Seiki.
It was originally owned by film composer John Williams and given to me by his son Mark.
I rarely use it, but only because it's inconvenient as compared to mp3s.
I DO think it sounds better than most digital players.
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analoghaze
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Re: vinyl

Post by analoghaze » Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:47 am

I started collecting vinyl in second grade. That was almost 40 years ago.
Two allowances were enough for me to buy the newest 45 single. Since then my collection has grown to 7,000 records.
They are better than CD's, but not as portable. I love being able to take CD's to work and in my car.
It is weird records are making a come back. I thaught they were gone forever after they fell off the face of the earth in the mid 90's.
The market for new vinyl is way more limited than digital media.
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Sir Nose
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Re: vinyl

Post by Sir Nose » Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:34 am

I like how some newer releases on vinyl included a code for a free download. Have your nice cake and eat the other one.

Just Me
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Re: vinyl

Post by Just Me » Wed Jul 11, 2012 9:20 am

Release vinyl with a digital download and follow up after the vinyl has sold with a digital release or CD.
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unfiltered37
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Re: vinyl

Post by unfiltered37 » Thu Jul 12, 2012 1:04 am

The record is something I'd rather not have in shuffle mode on an ipod, but I guess if you want exposure its inevitable. From an artistic standpoint, I'd rather do just vinyl not just to ido the continuous signals intact, (I have heard very good digital masters, but the best are from old master tapes mixed analog) but also to kinda force the listeners attention without limiting the bleep out of it. The vinyl with download code sounds like a great idea.

I have never cut a master let alone vinyl, so I'm not sure how it will sound. I guess I need to play a lot of gigs to get exposure.

Cpt Beardheart
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Re: vinyl

Post by Cpt Beardheart » Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:01 pm

My opinion is that vinyl is the only physical medium that really makes sense these days.

I'd say make music available digitally, since that is what most people use for convenience, then also offer a nice premium vinyl product with nice art for people who like to have something cool to own. A CD is just going to get ripped and tossed in the closet, IMO. Make a small number of vinyl to keep costs low, hand numbered, limited edition, swirly colors or something unique to make it a more desirable.

Just my 2 cents. I don't buy CDs if I don't have to. I have too many of them laying around already. I'll buy a nice record though, because I think they're cool.

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Voltor07
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Re: vinyl

Post by Voltor07 » Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:54 pm

Cpt Beardheart wrote:My opinion is that vinyl is the only physical medium that really makes sense these days.

I'd say make music available digitally, since that is what most people use for convenience, then also offer a nice premium vinyl product with nice art for people who like to have something cool to own. A CD is just going to get ripped and tossed in the closet, IMO. Make a small number of vinyl to keep costs low, hand numbered, limited edition, swirly colors or something unique to make it a more desirable.

Just my 2 cents. I don't buy CDs if I don't have to. I have too many of them laying around already. I'll buy a nice record though, because I think they're cool.

I agree with the above statement.
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thealien666
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Re: vinyl

Post by thealien666 » Thu Jul 12, 2012 1:01 pm

My father, who's 73, still has an impressive vinyl collection. And, although my collection is much more limited, I still have my trusty old Telefunken Direct Drive TT.
When I really feel like listening to music, I play myself a vinyl.

But that reminded me that I had made an experiment a while ago. I asked my father if he would participate, and he said sure.

I asked him to choose his personal absolute favorite record in his collection. His vinyl was in extremely good condition. I proceeded to digitize it using our best playback equipment (his turntable) a very high quality sound card (back in the days of my PC), and using 96 khz and 32 bits floating point, down converted back to 44100 Hz 16 bits to create a master CD.

We then did a blind test. I would play, randomly, the same musical piece either from the original vinyl, or its digital copy from the CD. He was surprised that he couldn't tell which was which. I said it was normal, since the CD had been made from that very same vinyl.

So he listened to the rest of the CD for a while, and was very pleased with the results. He even asked me if I could do the same for a few others of his favorites records. I said sure. But while I was in the process of converting them to CD, and since I was doing that in my spare time it took a while, I got a phone call from him. That was about a month later. He told me to stop everything.

I asked him what was wrong ? He told me that, for some unknown reason, he felt that the CD I had made didn't sound as good anymore... I went to his place, and there was nothing wrong with the CD. It played beautifully. He just said it didn't sound as good as the first day I had made it. I explained to him that the numbers on the CD didn't change, it was still an exact copy of his vinyl that he was listening to.

We then completed the experiment. We did another blind test with the original record and the CD played alternately randomly. And this time he could tell, without having any clue other than what he heard, every single time when the CD was playing rather than the original vinyl. Even though the CD was an exact copy of that vinyl.

He was a victim of a controversial phenomenon known listener's fatigue. There are many interpretations of that phenomenon. But mine is this: the little imperfections on the vinyl, which are changing dynamically every time a vinyl record is played and that had been captured at the time of the digitizing of that record, were "frozen" in time on the CD, that my father had been listening to for a few weeks. They weren't dynamically changing anymore. The sound wasn't "organic" in nature anymore. Nothing was ever changing from one play to the next.

My father's brain had memorized, over time, the exact way the CD was playing each and every time. And he grew tired of that. That's why he could point it out, each and every time it was played, in the last step of our experiment, whereas the vinyl was playing with ever changing results. And that's what our brains like to hear: ever changing audio patterns.

I'm convinced that this is also a big part of the appeal of analog synthesizers versus digital ones (ones that produce sounds from digital data).

My two cents on it.
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unfiltered37
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Re: vinyl

Post by unfiltered37 » Thu Jul 12, 2012 5:58 pm

I would be curious to see what would happen if you cut that cd back to vinyl. And although I don't know if you are an expert at copying vinyl to cd, but usually home burned cd's are of inferior quality to professionally mastered cds, unless they are burned directly from digital. We kinda had the debate about fatigue on another thread a while.back. Some engineers say that fatigue is a relatively new phenomenon (on media), because of digital and overzealous compression, which hits you hard at first, but then the lack of accent bores and fatigues you quickly. Especially when people are clipping their digital gear to get more loudness.

I think its more than just the imperfections of vinyl, because I listen to tape upwards of 10 hours day and never get fatigue unless its super loud. My view is that the mind and body and the universe all deal with continuous energy, and though digital audio can fool your ears into hearing continuous energy, the waves, energy, and vibrations are synthetic, which the body does not like at least at the subconscious level. My favorite analogy is synthetic vitamins. They will cure you of deficiencies, but have no nutritional value other than that. Listening to a good cd in the same way will sound great if you haven't listened to it or at least in a while, but gets old quickly, it simply alleviates your music deficiency.

When I bounce to digital from tape for archiving, I'll listen to the copy and it will sound close to identical the first few minutes, but then switching back and forth from the original, it slowly diverges and sounds more and more different. I can't mix in the box because I get fatigued after 2-3 passes, and the weird thing is that printing back out to tape from digital does not help much if at all. Once that first conversion is made, there's no going back.

Maybe I need better converters, but I doubt it. And of course good music that keeps you interested can counteract this effect. Digital may even force you to make better music subconsciously. Who knows. How the hell do people listen to those bitcrushers? Digital distortion sounds like how it feels to sandpaper your balls.

Anyway thanks for the input, ill hopefully be done in a few months, ill let you guys know what I decide to do.

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Re: vinyl

Post by EricK » Thu Jul 12, 2012 6:26 pm

Ear Fatigue :wink:

I think an even MORE interesting experiment would be to use one of those Laser Turntables which reads the part of the groove a stylus could never touch, the deepest portion of the V and see if that would affect the results.

I would have included a digital file with the vinyl popping algorithm.
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