MiniMoog-V Original for free - celebrating end agreement?

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LivePsy
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MiniMoog-V Original for free - celebrating end agreement?

Post by LivePsy » Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:12 am

Arturia are going to give away Minimoog-V Original which they say is celebrating the end of an agreement with Moog. What's that about? What agreement has ended and what does that mean for MoogMusic?

"Arturia has announced the end of an agreement"
http://www.sonicstate.com/news/2012/06/ ... -minimoog/

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BHC303
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Re: MiniMoog-V Original for free - celebrating end agreement

Post by BHC303 » Fri Jun 15, 2012 5:16 am

Interesting .,.

newtoslim
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Re: MiniMoog-V Original for free - celebrating end agreement

Post by newtoslim » Fri Jun 15, 2012 6:02 am

It sounds very simple:

Moog has withdrawn its endorsement to Arturia

all existing copies of any Arturia product containing the "moog" brand will not suitable for sale

they become worthless

so Arturia decides she will give them away

and later she will sell a new upgraded version, without any "moog" brand in it [I would be careful with graphuics as well, though. The Voyager is there for sale, it is a patented product, and it would be hard IMHO to convince a Judge that the characteristic "minimoog" slanted panel in wooden case image is not a trademark... Between a French company and an American lawyer, my chips are on the lawyer]

This way, Arturia slightly damages her sales (but new features in the new version will gain her customers anyway)

but makes herself look like one hell of a generous donor

and flips Moog the finger

and does software competitors some substantial damage (by undercutting their products)

A fairly simple case of bitter divorce and ruthless marketing.

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stiiiiiiive
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Re: MiniMoog-V Original for free - celebrating end agreement

Post by stiiiiiiive » Fri Jun 15, 2012 7:52 am

newtoslim wrote:Between a French company and an American lawyer, my chips are on the lawyer
I guess the Moog vs. Arturia is sufficient to put one's chips; no need to speak about countries :)
newtoslim wrote:A fairly simple case of bitter divorce and ruthless marketing.
Ok, I understood the agreement end date had been reached.

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thealien666
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Re: MiniMoog-V Original for free - celebrating end agreement

Post by thealien666 » Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:07 am

Here's my very personal opinion on Arturia's software.

Having tried and played some of their products, starting with the Moog Modular V and Minimoog V, and owning a real Minimoog D, I've never quite understood why Moog endorsed this company's products?

They sound good, but nowhere near the sound of the real instruments they portray. Their supposedly aliasing-free oscillator technology was still showing aliasing artifacts at extreme settings. (not anymore with soundcards that can go higher than 44khz though)

In fact, Minimonsta from GForce software, comes a lot more closer to the real sound of a Minimoog D. (including the feedback loop trick!)

Maybe Moog Music has now come to the same conclusions, and not renewed their endorsement agreement with Arturia based on that ? Or it might simply be that the agreement came to its end. But one might be wondering why it wasn't renewed? Arturia's timing of their Minibrute against the Minitaur might not have been appreciated by Moog Music... It is most probably hurting sales of the Minitaur at least a little...

Anyway, Arturia will be the loosers in this. They won't be able to rely on marketing ploys like "officially endorsed by Moog" to boost their sales. And given the "weak" sounding nature of their emulations, they better revamp and redesign their software a lot to give it the omph it is lacking, if they want to compete with other, better emulations out there.

And if they want to maybe concentrate more on hardware analog synths, then they will go agaisnt established giants like Moog Music, Doepfer, Synthesizers.com, etc... And if the Minibrute is all that they can come up with, then they better re-think their marketing strategy, because to me it sounds like a Korg Monotron on steroïds and that's about it... okay, maybe I'm exagerating a little... :roll:

Also, maybe I'm completely off-base and biased about all this. After all, I'm on the Moog forum right now, aren't I ? :mrgreen:
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Mr Arkadin
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Re: MiniMoog-V Original for free - celebrating end agreement

Post by Mr Arkadin » Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:07 am

I have to say I never rated any of the Arturia synths and I too was a bit dismayed as to why Moog put their official seal on these. Sonic Core's Minimax is by far a better plug-in, but lower profile as you need the DSP hardware to run it.

Perhaps the higher profile Arturia Moog's were seen as a stepping stone to the real thing. Maybe now they have Animoog they want to gives their own plug-ins a boost (although there is no native version of this - shame). Considering the flack Arturia get for some of their emulations I'm surprised Moog ever had anything to do with them. I think no endorsement is a much better place for Moog to be.

Actually I think the Minibrute is interesting as they haven't gone for the Moog filter - something a bit different for a change. Personally though I'm looking at the tragically named SE Boomstar (why oh why that name?) - as lovely as Minitaur is I cannot justify it having a Taurus 3 already.
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fyvewytches
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Re: MiniMoog-V Original for free - celebrating end agreement

Post by fyvewytches » Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:23 pm

thealien666 wrote:And if they want to maybe concentrate more on hardware analog synths, then they will go agaisnt established giants like Moog Music, Doepfer, Synthesizers.com, etc... And if the Minibrute is all that they can come up with, then they better re-think their marketing strategy, because to me it sounds like a Korg Monotron on steroïds and that's about it... okay, maybe I'm exagerating a little... :roll:
Yes, I would agree that you may be exaggerating a little :wink:

Right now I am not interested in either the Minibrute nor the Minitaur but to be perfectly honest although the build of the Minibrute looks a bit shoddy, it's design is more innovative (designed by Yves Usson of yusynth). I wouldn't de surprised if they start coming up with really interesting hardware in the not too distant future.

As for software, I would really like Moog to make their own version of the modular... for iPad, where you could buy modules via in-app purchases :-) One can only hope !
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thealien666
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Re: MiniMoog-V Original for free - celebrating end agreement

Post by thealien666 » Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:49 pm

fyvewytches wrote:...As for software, I would really like Moog to make their own version of the modular... for iPad, where you could buy modules via in-app purchases :-) One can only hope !
Yeah, that would be great ! And each new module for only $0.99 each ! (okay maybe $1.99 for the more interesting ones :wink: )
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LivePsy
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Re: MiniMoog-V Original for free - celebrating end agreement

Post by LivePsy » Fri Jun 15, 2012 6:21 pm

Aww come on, the Arturia Mini can't be that bad. It says "Pure as the original" on the web page :D

Hmm... Maybe *that* is why Moog withdrew their agreement. Smart of Moog to be able to discontinue their endorsement. And somehow Arturia are celebrating it.

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SnapperHead
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Re: MiniMoog-V Original for free - celebrating end agreement

Post by SnapperHead » Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:46 pm

Greetings fellow Moogers.

Long time casual reader here - first post. I like topics like this, so I'll chime in.

Coming from a marketing background, I think that because Arturia is now developing analog hardware and trying to stomp with the big dogs like Moog, the latter can no longer allow Arturia to enjoy the benefits involved with borrowing brand equity from the Moog name. Arturia also would not stand to gain as much as before by continuing to co-brand its products with Moog: one of its biggest competitors in their new analog hardware market. Continuing to emulate Moog's classic synths would not at all strengthen Arturia's own efforts to create their own proprietary legendary instruments; in fact, it might actually undermine their new work. I would even venture to guess that Arturia will develop a VCO-driven analog polysynth before Moog does! :shock: (haha! c'mon Moog... even if it's with DCOs, which are great too, pleeeeeeeez make a Polymoog 2 or Memorymoog 2 or something like that... pleeeeeeez!) :mrgreen: All kidding aside, I kind of mean that, though. It would not surprise me at all.

Also, the question was raised regarding why Moog would lend its name to Arturia's products in the first place. Considering how (in some contributors' opinions and not my own, as I have never used an Arturia product) their Moog-branded soft synth emulations could not come close to the hardware, I infer that such a situation is precisely what Moog wanted, in fact.

Think about it... as Moog attempts to claim more market share, it needs to reach new customers and develop a new market altogether (i.e. protecting its flanks, thus strengthening the brand). While Arturia was busy creating software Moog emulations, it would make guys like some of you say "nah, it's not the same as the original hardware." Bingo. Moog wins, because while Arturia's products cannot be that bad (these guys must be doing something right if they have been in business this long and they are actually expanding), they inadvertently create demand for the actual Moog-sounding hardware which only Moog provides, since they are doing their best to make an Arturia softsynth that sounds great and replicates Moog's own epic greatness. To Moog's marketing team, what must be a significant enough proportion of users would think, "I don't like as much/kinda-sorta like/don't like the Arturia sound at all compared with the genuine article... gimme the Moog instead." Sure, Arturia also emulates brands other than Moog. However, Sequential Circuits is gone... Oberheim is back but is not operating at the scale Moog runs and Arturia hopes to be... Arp is gone... and I don't know of other analogs they emulate (analog Rolands...?), but think about the others and whether or not they are still making a competitor for Arturia analogs.

But Moog was not the only winner in this relationship. Arturia gained some credibility. They have been studying the analog sound for a long time, so while the so-called "mini"brute is their first foray into analog hardware, they have cred. They enjoy brand recognition in their market and make what appear to be good products based on research of analog hardware. Sure, not the kind of cred Moog, DSI, Buchla, Doepfer, or Oberheim have, but it makes sense for them to develop hardware. Good for them, too.

So, as the Minibrute appears to sound quite different from any Moog synth, the "mini" prefix must have been chosen deliberately to capitalize on the reference to the legendary "mini"moog (was that an ambush????). Besides, the minibrute is "mini" how? Where's the "big" brute anyway? As for Moog, they benefited from the relationship because as I stated above, they tapped another market: the softsynth heads. These are all relatively small companies, so it makes sense that they would pursue partnerships like these that, as time goes by and markets change, will inevitably change in nature as well.

Both brands worked intelligently, assuming my hypothesis is correct about their motives for partnering and co-branding certain products.

Or, I am totally wrong. :lol:

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fyvewytches
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Re: MiniMoog-V Original for free - celebrating end agreement

Post by fyvewytches » Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:08 pm

SnapperHead wrote:I would even venture to guess that Arturia will develop a VCO-driven analog polysynth before Moog does! :shock:
The designer of the Minibrute has said (well written) that a "polybrute" is not currently planned.
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red
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Re: MiniMoog-V Original for free - celebrating end agreement

Post by red » Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:20 am

Is there another possibility to download the files WITHOUT facebock (I don't like to create an acount - I can't stand facebook...).
So can anyone provide a (private) download or send me the files direct (please pm first). I would use the MAC OS X version.

Thanks a lot - any help would be hardly welcome.

Like it :mrgreen:
::red

LivePsy
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Re: MiniMoog-V Original for free - celebrating end agreement

Post by LivePsy » Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:26 am

Just a con then. I refuse to have a facebook account, or 'like' a company to get something for free.

For me, the arturia web site has been down all day. Not that I care, a software minimoog is just an amusement IMO.

But if you want to create free advertising just state you will give away something for free for one day only, then shut the website down on that day...

Old age and treachery and all that,
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red
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Re: MiniMoog-V Original for free - celebrating end agreement

Post by red » Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:21 am

a software minimoog is just an amusement
That's true !
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Re: MiniMoog-V Original for free - celebrating end agreement

Post by nicholas d. kent » Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:46 am

>and later she will sell a new upgraded version, without any "moog" brand in it [I would be careful with graphuics as well, though. The Voyager is there for sale, it is a patented product, and it would be hard IMHO to convince a Judge that the characteristic "minimoog" slanted panel in wooden case image is not a trademark...

Patents and Trademarks are two completely different aspects as is design, something that is arguably the least protectable.

Still figuring out this current turn of events but I remember what was publicly known at the time of Arturia's product launch which does seem to tie in

Basically, to set the stage, Bomb Factory, an unrelated company to Arturia, had done some Protools plugin versions of the Moogerfoogers with the authorized product names and interfaces.

What I believe was publicaly talked about after it came out is that Arturia showed Bob Moog the Modular V software in beta for his opinion and I'm sure it was on the agenda to negotiate if they could use the Moog name. At the time they had software of a Moog modular that didn't say "Moog" on it and let Bob Moog know they were releasing it that way. That is to say it looked like a Moog Modular but didn't mention "Moog" by name.

By the way, also to set the context, Steinberg had already had success with their VST "Model E" emulation of the Minimoog. It did not have the Moog name on it but did copy the Minimoog panel quite closely.

So I would think that since they made it clear it was going to come out without his name alongside negotiating to put the Moog name on it and be compensated, Bob Moog agreed and told them why their original filter wasn't behaving as his did since he was apparently not impressed with the emulation that aspect. He sort of implied if they were putting his name on it he wanted it to sound closer to the original than it did. This was I think 10 years ago. The Modular V software came out in early 2003 and the Minimoog V later so a 10 year agreement does seem to match dates

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