Any Minimoog owners that also really like the Little Phatty?

In a Moog Mood? Here's a forum for discussion of general Moog topics.
EricK
Posts: 5972
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 2:09 pm

Re: Any Minimoog owners that also really like the Little Pha

Post by EricK » Thu May 03, 2012 9:46 am

Oh, well I thought someone said on here awhile back that it couldn't.
Support the Bob Moog Foundation:
https://npo.networkforgood.org/Donate/Donate.aspx?npoSubscriptionId=4043

I think I hear the mothership coming.

jeepo
Posts: 282
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2009 11:38 pm

Re: Any Minimoog owners that also really like the Little Pha

Post by jeepo » Fri May 11, 2012 3:15 pm

EricK wrote:I don't like the fact that you can't adjust more than one parameter at a time on a module (for instance, you can't adjust the filter cutoff and resonance simultaneously).
This is possible. Pot mapping can be used to assign the desired second parameter to another knob.
Stage II, MF-102, MF-105m, MF-107, paia theremin, akai s2000, yamaha pss 680, yamaha cp 25, and other stuff

EricK
Posts: 5972
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 2:09 pm

Re: Any Minimoog owners that also really like the Little Pha

Post by EricK » Fri May 11, 2012 7:23 pm

I didn't know the phatty did pot mapping, but it's not the same. Even the Voyager's pot mapping is limited.
Support the Bob Moog Foundation:
https://npo.networkforgood.org/Donate/Donate.aspx?npoSubscriptionId=4043

I think I hear the mothership coming.

User avatar
Voltor07
Posts: 5194
Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 3:04 am
Location: Waukegan, IL USA
Contact:

Re: Any Minimoog owners that also really like the Little Pha

Post by Voltor07 » Fri May 11, 2012 9:25 pm

EricK wrote:I didn't know the phatty did pot mapping, but it's not the same. Even the Voyager's pot mapping is limited.
I agree. However, I've never used the pot mapping myself. Pushing buttons has become a way of life for me. :lol:
Sub 37 #000068, Minitaur, CP-251, MF-102&103, EHX #1 Echo, EHX Space Drums/Crash Pads, QSC GX-3, Miracle Pianos, Walking Stick ribbon controller, Synthutron.com, Lowrey Teenie Genie.

User avatar
GregAE
Posts: 1577
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2003 8:44 pm
Location: In the studio, of course

Re: Any Minimoog owners that also really like the Little Pha

Post by GregAE » Sat May 12, 2012 7:52 am

Voltor07 wrote:
EricK wrote:I didn't know the phatty did pot mapping, but it's not the same. Even the Voyager's pot mapping is limited.
I agree. However, I've never used the pot mapping myself. Pushing buttons has become a way of life for me.
You should try Pot Mapping sometime - it has a lot to offer. For an introduction to PM on the Voyager, check out the article on KnobTweak:

KT > Files > Voyager > Pot Mapping.pdf

The article includes a dozen examples on useful PMs, like controlling Filter Cutoff with the Pitch Bend wheel, and using the MW to adjust the Master Volume -performance enhancers that can really make a difference in your solos!

- Greg

User avatar
Kenneth
Posts: 732
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2008 10:41 pm
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Contact:

Re: Any Minimoog owners that also really like the Little Pha

Post by Kenneth » Sat May 12, 2012 8:25 am

EricK wrote:I didn't know the phatty did pot mapping, but it's not the same. Even the Voyager's pot mapping is limited.
I agree that using Pot Mapping to adjust multiple parameters is not the same as using RAC to do it. Call me paranoid, tell me I have a wild imagination, but I can hear the digital stepping that occurs when I control parameters with MIDI. I don't like it either, so I'm going to stick to dedicated knobs on the Phatty... Well, "dedicated"- you know what I mean.
I don't own anything that would make you jealous.

User avatar
muksys
Posts: 434
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 5:05 am
Contact:

Re: Any Minimoog owners that also really like the Little Pha

Post by muksys » Sat May 12, 2012 10:59 am

Kenneth wrote:
EricK wrote:I didn't know the phatty did pot mapping, but it's not the same. Even the Voyager's pot mapping is limited.
I agree that using Pot Mapping to adjust multiple parameters is not the same as using RAC to do it. Call me paranoid, tell me I have a wild imagination, but I can hear the digital stepping that occurs when I control parameters with MIDI. I don't like it either, so I'm going to stick to dedicated knobs on the Phatty... Well, "dedicated"- you know what I mean.
Agreed. Even with 14bit, I can hear a difference when directly controlling the filter and via MIDI. I did make a panel on my iPad for the LP, but that was simply to make it easier to access deep menu items like pole switching, arp, mod source/dest changes, etc.

User avatar
thealien666
Posts: 2791
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2011 8:42 pm
Location: Quebec, Canada

Re: Any Minimoog owners that also really like the Little Pha

Post by thealien666 » Sat May 12, 2012 1:29 pm

muksys wrote: Agreed. Even with 14bit, I can hear a difference when directly controlling the filter and via MIDI.
Hahahaha! I doubt that very much!

You can hear a 1/16384 th step, roughly equivalent to 1.2 Hertz difference in pitch (for cutoff from 0 to 20 KHz) ? I'm an alien and I can't distinguish that with my Spock ears ! :mrgreen:

Only a precise frequency meter can show them, not without some difficulty (due to drift).

What you must have been hearing instead will probably have been an averaging if those values down to the "regular" 7 bits MIDI CC 256 possible values... Which correspond to 1/255 step or roughly 78 Hertz (for range of 0 to 20,000 KHz) which ARE audible on extreme ranges (like cutoff from 0 to 20 KHz).
Moog Minimoog D (1975)
DSI OB6
DSI Prophet REV2
Oberheim Matrix-6
Ensoniq SQ-80
Korg DW8000
Behringer DeepMind 12
Alesis Ion

Sir Nose
Posts: 1024
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2008 11:15 am

Re: Any Minimoog owners that also really like the Little Pha

Post by Sir Nose » Sat May 12, 2012 2:01 pm

An external midi controller really opens up the phatty. I pretty much always use the panel knob for filter cutoff. I do get zippering using the BCF2000 even when using 14-bit due to the scan rate on the faders.

I have been eyeing up a Bitstream.
http://www.waveidea.com/en/products/bit ... /index.php
Image

User avatar
thealien666
Posts: 2791
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2011 8:42 pm
Location: Quebec, Canada

Re: Any Minimoog owners that also really like the Little Pha

Post by thealien666 » Sat May 12, 2012 3:08 pm

Sir Nose wrote:I do get zippering using the BCF2000 even when using 14-bit due to the scan rate on the faders.
Yes, that's another very important factor in the equation. If zippering artifacts are audible even when using 14 NRPN MIDI messages, that's indeed due to poorly designed (read that too slow) scanning rate and conversion time of the panel potentiometers.
Moog Minimoog D (1975)
DSI OB6
DSI Prophet REV2
Oberheim Matrix-6
Ensoniq SQ-80
Korg DW8000
Behringer DeepMind 12
Alesis Ion

newtoslim
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:25 pm

Re: Any Minimoog owners that also really like the Little Pha

Post by newtoslim » Sun May 13, 2012 6:47 am

Anybody using a kurzweil pc3 as a "controlling surface" for the slim phatty?

I will have to do that in the next few days, and it would be nice to get some advice from somebidy who already experienced glitches and devised shortcuts.

User avatar
muksys
Posts: 434
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 5:05 am
Contact:

Re: Any Minimoog owners that also really like the Little Pha

Post by muksys » Sun May 13, 2012 9:40 am

thealien666 wrote:
muksys wrote: Agreed. Even with 14bit, I can hear a difference when directly controlling the filter and via MIDI.
Hahahaha! I doubt that very much!

You can hear a 1/16384 th step, roughly equivalent to 1.2 Hertz difference in pitch (for cutoff from 0 to 20 KHz) ? I'm an alien and I can't distinguish that with my Spock ears ! :mrgreen:

Only a precise frequency meter can show them, not without some difficulty (due to drift).

What you must have been hearing instead will probably have been an averaging if those values down to the "regular" 7 bits MIDI CC 256 possible values... Which correspond to 1/255 step or roughly 78 Hertz (for range of 0 to 20,000 KHz) which ARE audible on extreme ranges (like cutoff from 0 to 20 KHz).
Ok, thank you Spock for overabundently correcting me. Yes, It may be possible im using 7 bit when i think I'm using 14 bit But. If its my understanding that all controls on the LP that are not RAC are 14bit. I most certainly can hear stepping when I grab the cutoff and turn it very quickly just before RAC kicks in.

Please, next time, keep the ego down to a low roar. I don't visit the forums much lately. The nasty fanboyisms are out of control. The ideals of Moog are getting lost here.

Peeez!

newtoslim
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:25 pm

Re: Any Minimoog owners that also really like the Little Pha

Post by newtoslim » Sun May 13, 2012 10:03 am

muksys wrote: I can hear a difference when directly controlling the filter and via MIDI.
I believe that .

[btw: +1 re "fanboyism". Peace! Everybody here is passionate and competent, and a moog user. I don't see any major synth designer here, who is entitled to superiority].

Not in the strict technical sense.

But I believe that using an external controller you feel something wrong "between your hands and your ears".

Even at 14 bit, the sum of digital/analogue passages and different hardware CAN make the sound adjustments feel detectable.

You won't necessarily HEAR them, but you will FEEL them.

I can't ear 1.2 hertz differences, but my fingertips can definitely detect time delays and curve distortions (it happens all the time with several synths. Heck: don't you sometime "feel " that a total-analogue pot is on the verge of needing maintenance? That it doesn "sound" right? After long time spent on synths, I have that kind of "bad tactile feeling"].

This is why I love hardware so much, and avoid long control chains whenever is possible (which is: seldom. :( ).

EG: Is there a way of deactivating the phatty's leds? I am disturbed by the "optical quantization" they force on me.

What's the point of having nice, hi-resolution pots which detect variations in 1/5000 steps, when you have 16-step [or whatever] flashing lights distracting you?

I'd rather rely on my ears only. They damn sure detect changes in finer than 1/16th steps.

There's nothing strictly AUDIBLE there, there's no stepping, but there indeed is a SENSORIAL limitation in the hand/eye/ear operation.

So, 14 bit resolution has stricly nothing to do with it.

Post Reply