Can really an moog modular be cloned today?

[MC]

Elhardt may be abrasive, but he does have a valid point and I agree with him.

Ok, name one example of how modular synthesizers have contributed to the destruction of culture and music, then.

Broadcast radio. Many people including myself have stopped listening to radio because of the poor quality of new music being promoted these days. Doesn't matter whether it was made on a modular or a hard-wired synth. The decline of radio audience has homogenized broadcast radio to the handful of conglomerates who have relegated broadcasting from a few select central locations.

Culture suffered because there were no longer any local news/weather being broadcast, and the songlist doesn't gel with local tastes. Where I live the radio formats are classic rock, hip-hop, top40, and country - THAT'S IT. The classic rock station plays the same three-hour rotation of songs ALL DAY LONG. I'm TIRED of classic rock and the other tired tried-n-true formats. Where are the jazz, fusion, classical, punk, alternate stations? You will only find them in large metropolitan areas, the nearest one 100 miles out of range from me.

Music suffered because it is much harder for any new style or artist to break out of a local market. There is barely any outlet for true art.

Sure there is the internet - but there are still millions of citizens without internet access. And 9 out of 10 songs I have heard on internet outlets are not worth listening to, the net has become an outlet for jam musicians who like to believe they are songwriters. Way too much junk out there. I *do* like some of the electronic stuff out there though.

[Voltor07]

Elhardt may be abrasive, but he does have a valid point and I agree with him.

Ok, name one example of how modular synthesizers have contributed to the destruction of culture and music, then.

Broadcast radio. Many people including myself have stopped listening to radio because of the poor quality of new music being promoted these days. Doesn't matter whether it was made on a modular or a hard-wired synth. The decline of radio audience has homogenized broadcast radio to the handful of conglomerates who have relegated broadcasting from a few select central locations.

Culture suffered because there were no longer any local news/weather being broadcast, and the songlist doesn't gel with local tastes. Where I live the radio formats are classic rock, hip-hop, top40, and country - THAT'S IT. The classic rock station plays the same three-hour rotation of songs ALL DAY LONG. I'm TIRED of classic rock and the other tired tried-n-true formats. Where are the jazz, fusion, classical, punk, alternate stations? You will only find them in large metropolitan areas, the nearest one 100 miles out of range from me.

Music suffered because it is much harder for any new style or artist to break out of a local market. There is barely any outlet for true art.

Sure there is the internet - but there are still millions of citizens without internet access. And 9 out of 10 songs I have heard on internet outlets are not worth listening to, the net has become an outlet for jam musicians who like to believe they are songwriters. Way too much junk out there. I *do* like some of the electronic stuff out there though.

That's just music in general. I'm not about to blame Gibson LP's anymore than Moog LP's for what recording studios choose to sign up and reject. Radio is just broadcasting what music is available from major record labels, and the labels are perpetuating the crap by not signing acts with different sounds. What results is pop rock that the vast majority will accept, and that is bad for the more experimental musicians who are trying to make it. You can't blame individual musicians for the downfall of culture...there's plenty of culture, and yes, crap too, but that's always been the case. For every J.S. Bach, there's 20 Question Marks. It's the tried and true formats that make money.

[thealien666]

...Sure there is the internet - but there are still millions of citizens without internet access.

You're obviously not one of them since you come here, so why don't you do like millions of others who also have it, and download and buy your favorite music online. That's the future my friend. Compact Discs are slowly going extinct, in favor of downloadable media, a recent study showed.

Catch the wave or be drowned by it...
Anyway, there will always be Elvis music available as a download for you, somewhere. It might even be free, like on the radio!

[Mr Arkadin]

You're obviously not one of them since you come here, so why don't you do like millions of others who also have it, and download and buy your favorite music online. That's the future my friend. Compact Discs are slowly going extinct, in favor of downloadable media, a recent study showed.

It's not really about CD vs downloads. I still prefer CDs and don't download much - it doesn't excite me frankly. There's still plenty of obscure artists releasing CDs and the internet makes it easier to get them. Oh and that article, if it's the one I'm thinking of, was complete fake (CDs dead by 2012 is the one I'm thinking of). CDs still sell in the millions, so they'll still be made for a while yet.

Regardless, none of this proves that putting a '59 Les Paul Gold Top or Moog Modular in a glass case either contributes to music getting better or worse. It makes no difference. Also having one less instrument actually being used doesn't stop any musician creating - there's plenty more instruments in the sea. So bad music results from bad musicians, not what equipment is used. What's that about a bad workman?

I would be interested to know what profession Elhardt is in where he has to listen "to the glut of crap I have to sift through." I would also like to hear his amazing music too.

[EricK]

This thread has everything as usual: people defending stupid human behavior, people lowering the standards as to what music is just so they can pretend to be musicians, and people missing the points of others.

When somebody calls themselves a "collector", that implies that they don't actually use the things they buy, but just collect them. That is a pointless human behavior, a waste of good gear that could actually be used, and doesn't equate to people who have a lot of gear and use it. It's not behavior that should be encouraged with stupid comments like "do what makes you happy". However, it is possible to find a positive side to people who collect / horde old Moog Modulars, pulling them out of circulation and driving prices up, is that that particular Moog Modular will no longer produce cheap, no-talent, repetitive garbage as virtually all other modular synths do these days. So better to rot away as a collector's item than to contribute to the destruction of music and culture and add to the glut of crap I have to sift through.

Some of these "collectors" are also targets of people such as yourself who stamp Moog badges on their shite constructed DIY pieces to intentionally drive the price up. I apologize. People, Now Hear this:
Only do what makes Elhardt happy, for he must sift.

[mrslig100]

You can still by transistors and capacitors today can't you? all thats needed is schematics and a soldering iron.
The real question is do you have the time?

[MC]

The real question is when was the last time you tried to buy a CA3019? Polystyrene caps? P channel JFETs? MC1496?

The fixed filter bank used inductors that were made in-house. Not available anywhere unless you had Bob's expertise knowledge on inductors.

All of these are components used in the original modules, and haven't been made in YEARS or are in scarce quantities these days. H3ll with the progression of SMT, through-hole components will go the way of the dinosaur in the next ten years (with a few exceptions like polystyrene which cannot withstand the high temperature of solder baths).

[Portamental]

I remember a document I read last week or something. Some people were trying to match transistors the way explained in some vintage moog literature. Although they reproduced the test work-bench graphically depicted in the doc, their own work-bench was not able to match the transistors with good enough accuracy for filter building.

Whatever the case, when Bob set up to produce the Voyager back in 20xx, it was not meant to be an exact replica of the model D, much less a modular. I wish Moog would set about the task today, so I can buy something brand new tomorrow.

[analogmonster]

I remember a document I read last week or something. Some people were trying to match transistors the way explained in some vintage moog literature. Although they reproduced the test work-bench graphically depicted in the doc, their own work-bench was not able to match the transistors with good enough accuracy for filter building.

I don't understand this. I built the matching circuit according to the Moog modular service manual and found matching transistor pairs that way. I matched BC547 (pnp) BC557 (npn) BC550 (low noise pnp) abd BC560 (low noise npn) that way. I found a lot of pairs with a BE difference of 0 mV which is much better than the +/- 2mV demanded by Bob.
And even if the transistors are not matched (I made a test with a later Moog ladder implementation), you might get a slight difference between the half waves, but the filter works although.
See also
http://www.analog-monster.de/mmt904a_en.html
http://www.analog-monster.de/mmt904b_en.html

[analogmonster]

[quote="analogmonster]BC547 (pnp) BC557 (npn) BC550 (low noise pnp) abd BC560 (low noise npn)[/quote]
Sorry, I meant BC547 (npn) BC557 (pnp) BC550 (low noise npn) abd BC560 (low noise pnp) of course

[Kevin Lightner]

In regards to the poster that said all one needs are the parts, a soldering iron and the schematics, I disagree.
There's many errors and omissions in the schematics.
Parts layout and selection can require actual electronics knowledge / experience.
A good analogy would be that if I had all the right ingredients, some recipes and a kitchen, I could cook.

In regards to Ken, trust me, he enjoys throwing a hornet's nest into a thread.
But please don't confuse him with someone ignorant or untalented.
Ken is a very skilled graphic artist, synthesist AND internet-user manipulator.

[Portamental]

I don't understand this. I built the matching circuit according to the Moog modular service manual and found matching transistor pairs that way. ....

The point is not whether you did it or not.

Some people will, some people won't. Why bother building a filter out of discrete components when you can build one out of a Curtis chip? Costs less both in engineering and production costs. With everybody building synths out of the same components, it's no wonder many are starting to sound all alike.

We now live in a world where most people buy furniture made out of saw dust and glue. For a tiny number, paying a hundred dollars to put real wood sides to a little phatty is a good deal just because it's nice. But a company will not make ends meet by selling a few wood planks here and there.

The challenge is running a company that can make a reasonable profit (first rule of business to stay afloat) while bringing a product of high standard (soundwise) to a selective clientele that is large enough to sustain the existence of such products.

[Voltor07]

I don't understand this. I built the matching circuit according to the Moog modular service manual and found matching transistor pairs that way. ....

The point is not whether you did it or not.

Some people will, some people won't. Why bother building a filter out of discrete components when you can build one out of a Curtis chip? Costs less both in engineering and production costs. With everybody building synths out of the same components, it's no wonder many are starting to sound all alike.
/snip/

The challenge is running a company that can make a reasonable profit (first rule of business to stay afloat) while bringing a product of high standard (soundwise) to a selective clientele that is large enough to sustain the existence of such products.

Here's the thing. Starting in the late 1970's, synth manufacturers started materializing out of thin air. Most of these synth companies formed their strategy around SSM and CEM chips. They survived, some thrived, most died when the DX7 was released. Any company nowadays who is willing to put in the R&D to create an analog monophonic synth is going to want to maximize their profits, because the market is almost nonexistent. Anyone watching synth videos on YouTube can find at least 50 comments saying, "I can has do this on Reason! Why u spend so much 4 hardware?" There are so many softsynths, and digital modeling synths of high quality now, that analog synth manufacturers are serving a niche market. A large niche market, but one nonetheless. Obviously, what's needed is more voice chip manufacturers. I say bring the SSM line back, or at least, make a financially sustainable version of those chips. Chips are the way to go. Discrete circuitry is not financially suitable for most synthesizer manufacturers today.

My two cents.