Micky Dolenz Moog

[compago]

Does anyone have any 1967 / 68 / 69 Moog Modular price lists? All I could find is this one from 1976 (?)

Using those individual module prices, adjusted for 2013 inflation.. this unit is well over $100k just on retail price alone. Are there any other 1960's R.A. Moog modulars available for sale?

1976 Price list: http://compago.net/music/moog/img/moog_ ... ar76p2.jpg

Yes I wrote visibly or appears mint. I would grade the overall physical appearance at at least a 92/100. The wood looks like it's never seen any moisture at all, it is in truly remarkable condition. All the knobs still have their original knob reflectors.

To the best of my knowledge Serial 1002 on our 984 is the second unit released commercially, and a very well respected, senior Moog specialist wrote me that. It was Moogs serial practice at the time. 1002 is #2.

This unit's modules are R.A. Moog Trumansburg, dated Sept 15 1967, serials 1002, 1003, 1006, 1008, 1009, 1011 up to 1065. The eight 901-B's serials are sequentially from 1058-1065! That's pretty cool. 10 Osc total.

[CZ Rider]

Have to remember that R A Moog did not put serials on individual modules untill 1967, and the modules all started at 1001 in 1967. The 914 Extended Filter Bank was a newer introduced module so that quite possibly is the third one. But other modules that were produced in 1965/66 might not be the same serial as the number of units produced to that date. For instance there was a posted 901C with serial 1001, that would be the first on made in 1967, not the first one made. Eric Siday's 1965 system had one and I counted a few others before that 1967 serial 1001 was made.
A good indicator the 914 was an early production one is the construction is made on Vector Plugbord. I have never seen one like that before. The 914 was not one of the original modules offered in the 1965 catalog. Not sure when first offered, but the Dolenz system seems to indicate this was a 1967 module. The 911A was also a newer module introduced in 1967, acording to an October 1967 newsletter from R A Moog.

I have many price lists for the Moog modulars over the years. Allowing for inflation, very few ststems sold today will match the original cost back then. There was a slight discount for the systems versus individual modules. In 1970 the IIIP listed at $7985, more that many expensive 1970 sports cars sold for. In 1967 the Synthesizer III listed at $6190. Those system prices included the 950 keyboard and 955 or 956 linear controller, along with patch cords and documentation.

Edit: The price list you linked above is not in US dollars. They were much less in US dollars in 1976? Almost purchased a new Model 35 in 1978 and it was around 5K. Purchased a Yamaha CS-80 instead? Took a few more years to get finally get that Moog!
The 984 serial looks like 1007 to me, and probably the seventh one made in 1967. That would be about right as these were only offered as standard on system II's or III's.

[compago]

There are $ signs at the top of each price section indicating USD. Not sure what the small "e" is to the right of the numbers but I'd guess this price list is USD and the footer reads Suggested Retail Price.

What do you think a single 901-B would sell for today? all three 904s? Are there any records of any 1960's Modular sales?

Would like to see those price lists you have. Just got an email from Moog directly, I asked them for the lists as well. Thanks again for all your correspondence, we really appreciate all the great info

*edit: So the 914 we have stamped Serial 1003 would be the third in 1967 or the third ever released in Moog's history / commercial production?

Added: here's a very large hi-res of the back w the 914. Note how clean everything looks.
http://compago.net/music/moog/img/Moog-3C-9_BACK.jpg

[mikael488]

The price list from the 1967 Moog short form catalog can be found on Wendy Carlos' website (in the section "On Bob Moog"):
http://www.wendycarlos.com/

Early sales records for the Moog modular are available at http://moogarchives.com/ (click on "lists % charts" in the left menu and then "modular systems")

[BrianK]

To the best of my knowledge Serial 1002 on our 984 is the second unit released commercially, and a very well respected, senior Moog specialist wrote me that. It was Moogs serial practice at the time. 1002 is #2.

No - as said before - ALL this means is that your 984 mixer is the second one made after they started with serial numbers. I know the senior Moog specialist, I saw him about 2 weeks ago. We were discussing serial numbers and how the log books make people think their unit is more special or rare, as it has a low number. However in some cases there are dozens (or hundreds) of modules without serial numbers BEFORE those 1967 units. Be careful when dealing with "firsts" or historical significance, there are a lot of factors involved.

The value of this synth is yet to be seen. No price list comparison will help you - it is only up to the historical collectibility of this instrument that gives it value beyond the normal "ebay" systems. It certainly has strong value, but it's hard to determine...

[BrianK]

The eight 901-B's serials are sequentially from 1058-1065! That's pretty cool.

This would be common - they build them on the benches and store them on shelves. Yours would come from a build and they would grab them as a group. That IS a nice amount of oscillators, more than most older systems had, and quite useful. Has anyone found the original linear controller that was with this system- it looks like a plank of wood with a metal strip of ribbon across it?

[CZ Rider]

The eight 901-B's serials are sequentially from 1058-1065! That's pretty cool.

This would be common - they build them on the benches and store them on shelves. Yours would come from a build and they would grab them as a group.

This is all very interesting, isn't it!
I might tend to believe that the R A Moog Co., may have labled those serial numbers after they were mounted inside the various cabinets. I have a cabinet here where they messed up the serials, and would seem to indicate they were labled not on a bench, but in the cabinet. The 901A, 901B, 901B, and 903 are miss-labled. The 901A is fine, but both 901B's have the same serial #1684, while the 903 serial #1105 is labled as a model 901B. They all look the same from the back of the cabinet, but on a bench it would be difficult to label a 903 White Noise Source as a 901B oscillator. Would make sense to write the serials sequentially after mounting, rather then pulling them sequentially off the shelf too. That would be my guess as to how it was done.

Great pic of the back of those oscillators. This photo documents that by Sept.15,1967 they were still using those first revision 901A drivers with the large "top hat" germanium diodes. These were known for going out of tune with a slight breeze. Sometime later they switched to using the CA3019 diode array that handled a breeze much better.
Here are the differences in the schematics, old on left, newer revision on right:

The CA3019 is wired for the same ammount of diodes as in the original 901 circuit. But it is shielded a little better for a uniform temp change. If you ever tried to match germanium diodes, you know measuring the voltage drop will change just by breathing on them. Can see those large diodes in those photos, there were 8 of them to drift about, compared to the two sealed CA3019's. I'll bet it was a huge improvement in stability. Bob and company made a few changes over the years, and not all 901's are quite as temperature sensitive as those early ones.

EDIT: looked up that 1976 price list and it is in Canadian $. The exchange rate was quite different back then and the USD conversion was a bit more than CAD.

[Vsyevolod]

Of the three cabinets in this photo, the two on the right are made with plywood, the one on the left is also plywood though the bottom piece is made with 'lumber core'. Plywood is made up of several sheets of rotary cut wood, glued together with each layer shifted 90 degrees, with the final thinnest veneer being a higher quality 'show' wood. This gives it incredible strength and resistance to warpage or cracking. Lumber Core is made up of solid wood glued up into a large panel, a sheet of rotary cut wood glued on either face, then the finished veneer in the lumber's original grain direction.

That being said, no cabinet maker in his or her right mind would ever allow the end grain of either plywood or lumber core to show as they do on the front of these cabinets. Typically the end grain would be covered with a thin veneer of the same wood as the finished outside veneer. These cabinets are very utilitarian, though the woodworking is amateurish at best.

Stephen




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[BrianK]

For the 2013, they finally played "Daily Nightly" live for the first time in their history. Great visuals - based upon photos of Dan Schwartz's Moog P system (made from some old Paul Beaver and Steve Porcaro modular systems). Mike Nesmith does some wonderful impersonations of a Moog. They were thinking of borrowing my own Moog for the tour, but matching sounds (and the cost/insurance risk) made the situation impossible....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcfMHUvNX9I

[compago]

I appreciate everyone’s positive comments and helpful input.

Currently: I am meeting the owner soon and will shoot some macro images of whatever exposed inner modules I can.

CK - Thanks for the great technical information! At best I can determine the Canadian to USD exchange rate in 1976 was about 1:1 http://fxtop.com/en/historical-exchange ... NG=en&CJ=0

That Moog catalog (from the Moog factory but used by a Toronto distributor? It’s unclear) is file-name-dated 1976 (if that’s accurate), so if Moog wasn’t making modulars in 1976 those prices were could have been marked up due to scarcity or just appreciation - or - maybe that was simply the actual US price in 1976.

The toggle switch conundrum.

Just to touch upon these toggle switches again, ahem, do they appear on any of the other ‘67’s? ‘65’s? Looking at the first ‘64 Moog, the 1019 appears to have similar toggle switches. I’d say the unique toggle switch panel could be a game changer - placing some of it’s components / design closer to protos of ‘64 and ‘65 than of 1968. Is this the only ‘67 with those exact toggle switches?

Are there photographs of the other twenty two 1967 R.A. Moog modulars? What happened to 1004, 1014 and 1017? These must be the missing Moogs I heard about.

Brian - “ALL that means is your 984 mixer is the second one made after they started with serial numbers.. ” in my book that means a heck of a lot =) Anyway you look at it, we have very low actual production serials. Working. 1002, 1003, 1006, 1009 etc.

Additionally, I love how those non-model number and no-serial-number mixer and I/O units have the same B&W lettering tape as appears on the very first Moog ever from 1964. I wonder if they used the same tape gun? Does that tape gun have a serial.. or not? Would non-serialized Moog tape guns be more valuable than serialized ones? Brian maybe that’s your department

So what happened in 1966? As far as I can tell, no commercial production, just prototypes? Beaver & Krause pitched Moogs to the music community in LA in 1966. Bob setting up the company after his Ph D from Cornell? Interestingly, one of my best friends’ wife is a tenured Professor at Cornell.

Determining Value.

Would 1019 be in “The Top 10 Moog Modulars” from “The Early Years Era” of 1964-1967? I think so. Top 5? Maybe. The first and only 3-cabinet? Yes. Most famous one? I think so. 1019 is listed on Moogarchives website as the First of the “Famous Systems” http://moogarchives.com/modnames.htm - the only one on that list from up to 1967.

I’m getting a lot of inquiries regarding the asking price for this rare Moog. I’ll advise anyone to move quickly before the dotcom or rich hipster whales hear about it and then poof it’s overseas and never seen again because I am pitching it to them as well.

Comparables: A left-handed, 1960 Gibson Les Paul Standard sunburst guitar sold for about $148,000 at auction in 2012. Some of them can go closer to half a million. Is Moog Modular 1019 about as rare as that left handed Les Paul? I believe it to be. It’s physically far more rare. There were hundreds of Sunbursts. About 1700 Standards. Here’s the Les Paul sale. http://entertainment.ha.com/c/item.zx?s ... otNo=54132

1967 Moog Modulars - about 23 (as best as I can tell not many are not accessible, not working or whereabouts known).


I’ve uploaded large hi-res images of each of the three back sections here:

http://www.compago.net/music/moog/img/6 ... -RIGHT.jpg

http://www.compago.net/music/moog/img/6 ... K-LEFT.jpg

http://www.compago.net/music/moog/img/6 ... CENTER.jpg

Now if I could just get my hands on a 960 sequencer.. yeah right!

[Trigger]

I wonder if they used the same tape gun? Does that tape gun have a serial.. or not? Would non-serialized Moog tape guns be more valuable than serialized ones? Brian maybe that’s your department

AFAIK, Moog used Dymo brand label makers and tape. It doesn't seem to be as rare as one would think. I have seen many instances of Dymo labels on modules--my system has a fair number of them. I still have my orange plastic model from 1972, and it still works!

Comparables: A left-handed, 1960 Gibson Les Paul Standard sunburst guitar sold for about $148,000 at auction in 2012. Some of them can go closer to half a million. Is Moog Modular 1019 about as rare as that left handed Les Paul? I believe it to be. It’s physically far more rare. There were hundreds of Sunbursts. About 1700 Standards.

I think comparing a vintage synthesizer's value with a vintage electric guitar makes no sense. They're literally two different animals--how can you say that that the 904A compares with a PAF pickup? Sorry, it's a non-starter for me. Bottom line, something's only worth what someone is willing to pay for it.

I understand that you want to maximize the return on this system for your client, but IMO if you think you're going to get in the neighborhood of $150K, I think you're up in the night.
You might add some value to the system by documenting its provenance (like having a photo of Mickey Dolenz signing the system), but the eBay auctions of Moog modulars I've seen in the past few years have had trouble selling for a third of the LP value.

In any event, good luck with the sale--it's definitely a piece of history, and I hope you get a good price for it. If you do, that will make my system more valuable!

[CZ Rider]

Would 1019 be in “The Top 10 Moog Modulars” from “The Early Years Era” of 1964-1967? I think so. Top 5? Maybe. The first and only 3-cabinet? Yes. Most famous one? I think so.

I would think the Carlos Moog would be a little more famous, no? Switched on Bach? Not to mention the Eric Sidday system that was heard all over radio and TV by millions. There were a few other famous systems built before they kept serials in 1967 like the Max Brand system. Have to dig around as that info isn't listed in those serialzed archives that began in 1967. Probably a dozen or so systems made before 1967, all quite famous, used by working musicians with many works published, while some systems went to universities. It's just unknown how many, since records were not kept in any order before '67. How many 60's Moog modulars are there that do not have some history? These were still quite rare and expensive back then, and were limited to professionals and universities. I'll bet almost every one of those early Moogs has an interesting story behind it.

[Trigger]

I would think the Carlos Moog would be a little more famous, no? Switched on Bach? Not to mention the Eric Sidday system that was heard all over radio and TV by millions

How about Keith Emerson's system? Paul Bley's? Roger Powell's? Tomita's? It would seem that the Monkees used Mickey's Moog as more of an effect, rather than an integral part of how they musically expressed themselves.

That said, I remember an Antiques Roadshow where an absolute POS import acoustic guitar was valued at $70K simply because Jimi Hendrix had signed it. So who knows?

[CZ Rider]

How about Keith Emerson's system? Paul Bley's? Roger Powell's? Tomita's?

Many famous systems were used later, but the OP was asking about those early 1964-1967 years. The Carlos and Siday system were such early systems and predate the Dolenz system. There were a few others. The Carlos demo record of the Moog 900 series modules was finished in June 1967. All these systems did go through changes over the years, while that Dolenz system looks like it did when it left the factory. Pretty much unchanged and a time freeze of that 1967 Moog era. Many of those early systems would upgrade to the 921 oscillator in years to come, staying on the cutting edge of the time.

I always wonder what happened to all those old 901's that were replaced? Walter Sear's was one of those early 68 systems that had all the 901A/B combos upgraded to the newer 921's. I could use an extra 901B!

[compago]

lol I never wrote the 1019 was "the" most valuable MM, I asked if it would be in the top ten or top five of the "early era" up to 1967.

It represents a lot of firsts to be sure.

Does anyone have any photos of any other 1967 systems??

Is there a record of ANY pre-1970 Moog modulars selling privately - have there ever been any FS?

Do any of them have the same mixer and I/O modules??

@Trigger - Guitars are far more available from that era - heck, you can go in to almost any Guitar Center and find something from the 60's. Not so much with Moog Modulars, never mind individual 904s. How about a whole set of 60's Moog 904's - A, B & C? Unlikely you'll find them for sale ever.

Edit* Here's a 1960 Les Paul Cherry Standard Sunburst FS http://www.normansrareguitars.com/gibso ... -case.html for $325,000

Edit 2 - Here's a '59 Les Paul Standard in.. Guitar Center.. $165,000
http://www.guitarcenter.com/In-Store-Vi ... 7124231362