New from Moog!!! 'The Ladder' 500 series Filter

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unfiltered37
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Re: New from Moog!!! 'The Ladder' 500 series Filter

Post by unfiltered37 » Fri Oct 21, 2011 7:27 pm

Lunchbox is a hugely popular format now, with very good low price modules and even cheaper lunchboxes/power racks by other manufacturers out there. Combining high quality sound reproduction and analog synthesis is the logical way to go. Everything has pretty much been done in electronic music at this point, I have not heard anything revolutionary in the past few years, and the only new sounds I have heard are harsh digital mutilations of sound. Even with all these weird crazy modules coming out, the tried and true basic modules like the moog filter still sound the best, and to me the best evolution is just to improve on what's already there. Now more people will hear what a moog filter sounds like through a neve 1073, La-2a, type modules, etc. etc. Not that is hasn't been done, but this type of direct interface between studio and synth gear has never been explored much. That is why i suggested that moog make a 500 series module a few months ago, and it's hard to believe they didn't see my idea and run with it.

EricK
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Re: New from Moog!!! 'The Ladder' 500 series Filter

Post by EricK » Fri Oct 21, 2011 8:39 pm

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sweetsynthchuck
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Re: New from Moog!!! 'The Ladder' 500 series Filter

Post by sweetsynthchuck » Fri Oct 21, 2011 11:54 pm

Hi Guys first post here.

i registered as this product appeals to me but the functionality of it has some food foor thought.

not being a guitar pedal and having a envelope for me i would want my source signal being feed into the filter to be triggered via an external source, say for instance a hi hat loop 1/4 via a jack input , that way i can turn boring pads into something differnt.

Make it happen guys a simple revision would make this unit so much more effective processing the input signal prehaps adding a simple switch to switch between ext trigger of envelope / source.

Please add a front input jack to manually trigger the envelope and use a switch to toggle between jack input or source signal.

any other users feel the same please post and notify the good guys at moog, front input jacks are widely used in the 500 format so please look into it.

theglyph
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Re: New from Moog!!! 'The Ladder' 500 series Filter

Post by theglyph » Sat Oct 22, 2011 11:23 pm

This has made me so angry that I wish Amos would stand up for this and give an explanation of what the F they were thinking.

The Animoog is awesome and doesn't need to be defended but this is very different and makes me question what's going on there in Asheville.

unfiltered37
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Re: New from Moog!!! 'The Ladder' 500 series Filter

Post by unfiltered37 » Sat Oct 22, 2011 11:59 pm

They were thinking they are a business that needs to expand their horizons and make income, which is the goal of any business. No business would survive without profit margins, and just because this product's not for you, doesn't mean you can't enjoy their other stuff. Modern studios buy 500 series gear like candy, so why not tap the market? I think both the animoog and ladder, while not that great in themselves, are a brilliant marketing strategy. I'm curious to hear why you think the ladder so undefendable (from a business perspective, not consumer). From an engineer/musician's perspective, my mf-101 is still killer, and I enjoy it every time I fire it up. Much cheaper and better than the ladder i'm sure, but if I was an engineer without synth experience and not a musician, the ladder would appeal to me. So those of you complaining about the ladder's lack of features, why not dust off the old 101, or use external input on your moog synth.

sweetsynthchuck
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Re: New from Moog!!! 'The Ladder' 500 series Filter

Post by sweetsynthchuck » Sun Oct 23, 2011 11:06 am

the mf-101 is nice, but im what im suggesting is trying to better the product in question making it more practical and useful for my needs im not offering alternative products as thats counter constructive.

and i really do hope the guys at moog consider it, processing softsynths with a moog filter has been a dream of mine, but opening and closing of the envelope in either direction is nice, but the source signal as the trigger only works in x amount of situations, adding a ext audio trigger would make the unit would offer some one like me many other creative options,

some trigger control is needed, heck even a midiport or usb port on the unit to trigger it would be fine, would be a great way to open up the 500 series module to alot more creative uses.

guys at moog make it happen!

nathanscribe
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Re: New from Moog!!! 'The Ladder' 500 series Filter

Post by nathanscribe » Sun Oct 23, 2011 12:45 pm

I love the internet. It's where people go to complain about things they don't need, can't afford and/or have no interest in, all of which are made by other people for people other than themselves. And still - they come.

Personally I think this is interesting - not so much in itself, but as an indication of what else we might be seeing.

Mr Arkadin
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Re: New from Moog!!! 'The Ladder' 500 series Filter

Post by Mr Arkadin » Sun Oct 23, 2011 2:00 pm

Have to say I can't get angry about something that isn't for me.

I think my problem with the Animoog was that it is software and really the T3 needs software updates and an editor, but I guess that's probably not even the same people who would code it anyway.
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angelus00
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Re: New from Moog!!! 'The Ladder' 500 series Filter

Post by angelus00 » Sun Oct 23, 2011 2:29 pm

Benjamin AM wrote:Good, maybe this will stop people from polluting the forum with concerns that Moog is going digital.
IMHO Moog has gone digital. They've released software "versions" of their wonderful and respected analog products. I think that is a big mistake. I think all their creativity and manpower should be invested in doing what they have always done wonderfully.

slabwax
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Re: New from Moog!!! 'The Ladder' 500 series Filter

Post by slabwax » Sun Oct 23, 2011 9:26 pm

theglyph wrote:This has made me so angry that I wish Amos would stand up for this and give an explanation of what the F they were thinking.

The Animoog is awesome and doesn't need to be defended but this is very different and makes me question what's going on there in Asheville.


Dude what the hell are you thinking?
Whats going on is that Moog is expanding their customer base. At one time it seems they manufactured a eq,some rack mount phase shifter and some other things.I've seen all sorts of non synth Moog gear on ebay. I'm not a synth historian so flame me if Im wrong. And even If they never were in that market why should they not expand? If I don't want or need it it shouldn't exist I love all you flat earth fanboys. I don't need or want The Ladder or a Mood slide guitar,so they should not make one. Wow is all I have to say!


Slabwax

EricK
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Re: New from Moog!!! 'The Ladder' 500 series Filter

Post by EricK » Sun Oct 23, 2011 11:29 pm

They way you guys make it seem, its like a Norlin era remix. :D

I have to admit, they have gone in some weird product directions the last few years.....the guitar, the lap steel, and now this.

We really don't know where they get their ideas from. I tell you that I think one of the things that has gone way down hill is their marketing since Chris Stack left. They had virtually zero publicity for their lap steel, and a trend of product names that are getting a little more immature.

For all we know, their product ideas come from industry trends that they are picking up from NAMM and other shows, or from the studio time they spent with the Taurus III, or it might even be that Mike Adams has his ownlong term vision. We're not in the know so we really can't say.

I saw this module come out and I was surely thinking that my dreams have come true about a Modular, but it's peculiar to me how they are making a product for another company's platform meanwhile all of the products that we want for our synths, other synth companies are steadily moving in on.



I have no doubts that it would sound great and I know good things that it could be used for, and pricewise, it is in the higher end of other 500 series modules. Ive seen them go from the high 400 dollar range to as much as 1200 for a tube preamp at sweetwater.

Eric
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unfiltered37
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Re: New from Moog!!! 'The Ladder' 500 series Filter

Post by unfiltered37 » Sun Oct 23, 2011 11:58 pm

The platform is actually universal now, made by many companies like eurorack except for engineers. I disagree strongly that their marketing is down hill, quite the opposite, they are expanding their customer base hugely. The lap steel is more of a specialty product, why spend any effort marketing to the lap steel players' club? I don't know why anyone who doesn't play slide would buy one. Moog already has a solid line of musical gear and I don't think it would be wise to go into modular territory, a market already saturated with RA moog clones. What they are doing is calling attention to their established gear with these new products aimed at other markets, because they know that once they try moog gear they will be hooked like the rest of us.
I think they realize that there really aren't many options in the way of new products that stay true to their history, so they are trying to target everyone else besides us synthesists to expand sales on existing products. If you think about it, no one has really put forth on this forum or otherwise any good ideas for a new product. I know you guys want them to make a self contained poly, but that's a bad idea and its not going to happen.
My guess for the future of moog: they will expand on the fooger line about once a year, continue to release apps, and keep making the voyagers and phatties for a long time, with no new synthesizers.

EricK
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Re: New from Moog!!! 'The Ladder' 500 series Filter

Post by EricK » Mon Oct 24, 2011 12:35 am

I think there have been lots of good ideas for products they should make, but good is subjective to our individual needs.
Take a look at the "What should Moog release next" thread and then you will notice that Doepfer seemed to get some ideas from us directly (Dark Energy, Dark Time anyone????)

You made some decent points about marketing, but I tell you what...
The Lap Steel came out with zero fanfare. They had a youtube video that was "private" featuring a demo of it. Nothing on facebook or twitter and from what attendees said, at Namm, you had to ask to see it or know about it before they would break it out. Big Marketing Mistake. You had to do some major google digging to find out anything about it at first. WTH?

Their new homepage is way too cluttered and you have to dig to find the product page. This should be the easiest thing to find right?

I think that they are releasing products to market way too fast also.

Im sure they will iron out all these details....hell Im just glad they are still making money. And you can bet your bottom dollar that these apps they are putting out are making a lot of profit for them. I won't ever use them and I don't like software synths, but as long as they keep the good products funded then Im grateful.

I think their biggest issue is their space and their staff size. We sure expect so much from such a small group of people. I don't think that can be stressed enough.


Eric
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Kevin Lightner
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Re: New from Moog!!! 'The Ladder' 500 series Filter

Post by Kevin Lightner » Mon Oct 24, 2011 6:30 am

I think they're simply trying to straddle the market: a .99 app and $840 filter.
Moogfoogers for those in between.

The format for the 500 is a bit dated with consideration that many studios have gone out of business, but it's still a viable high-end device.
I'd suggest they offer a $49-99 discount for those that purchase two for stereo. It provides added incentive to buy two or more.
At a place like AES though, this device would be immediately accepted.
Large production studios send engineers and buyers to AES even though they might skip NAMM entirely.
It's a very different crowd with some overlap.
(ie: you may well show a 500 filter at both NAMM and AES, but you'd likely not show a Moog guitar at AES. It's not a show for instruments usually.)

It's not optimum for a modular.
You'd have to add front panel jacks, perhaps a CV summer and is simply too expensive for most modulars, not to mention that there are more widely acceptable formats if this was their intention.

If Moog came out with a 904A clone (perhaps with some varied power and connector options), I think they'd have all bases covered.
They would immediately find buyers with Synthesizers.com and other Moog format modulars ready to buy.
What price they'd decide for such a product would require very careful consideration though.
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ARP
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Re: New from Moog!!! 'The Ladder' 500 series Filter

Post by ARP » Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:16 am

If Moog came out with a 904A clone (perhaps with some varied power and connector options), I think they'd have all bases covered.
They would immediately find buyers with Synthesizers.com and other Moog format modulars ready to buy.
:) I haven't given up hope that someday Moog may still do it. I have to admit that I was fooled for a minute when I opened the web site and saw what at first glance looked like a new synth module from Moog, but my excitement soon turned to WTF ? I'm just glad Moog is still making new stuff, even if it's not something I'd purchase. :| If they ever do build any MU synth modules, they will sell them.
"Although they heard the music..they didn't understand the tune"

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