Do fake Chinese-made Moogs exist?

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MLPS2
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Do fake Chinese-made Moogs exist?

Post by MLPS2 » Mon May 30, 2011 4:55 pm

Hi team!
I'm scared that I might come across one of these (if they exist).
How can I tell the difference between the fakes and real deal!?

Sir Nose
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Re: Do fake Chinese-made Moogs exist?

Post by Sir Nose » Tue May 31, 2011 12:06 am

What model?

MLPS2
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Re: Do fake Chinese-made Moogs exist?

Post by MLPS2 » Tue May 31, 2011 4:41 am

I'm looking at the Voyager currently. But overall, are Moogs (or synthesizers for that matter) counter-fitted by China?
How do I know that my Little Phatty Stage II is the genuine article for eg?

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Christopher Winkels
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Re: Do fake Chinese-made Moogs exist?

Post by Christopher Winkels » Tue May 31, 2011 6:43 am

I've never heard of a Chinese clone of any synth.

Unlike guitars, which are relatively low tech (i.e. easy to replicate in general form if not specific detail) and comparatively high volume, analogue synthesizers are generally boutique instruments and don't attract the same sort of counterfeiting problems.

I'd be more worried about individual components used unwittingly by repair techs who buy an esoteric part from overseas only to find that it's a counterfeit.

Just Me
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Re: Do fake Chinese-made Moogs exist?

Post by Just Me » Tue May 31, 2011 8:18 am

If you are paying $500 for a Voyager or some seriously low amount, it's stolen. Not counterfeit.
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Sweep
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Re: Do fake Chinese-made Moogs exist?

Post by Sweep » Tue May 31, 2011 9:11 am

Although I've never heard of a Chinese copy of a Moog, we do know that some parts of recent Moogs have been made in China. We know about keyboards, and I wonder if there are other parts as well.

If so, it's asking for sub-standard parts that were supposed to be destroyed to be stockpiled by someone wanting to make counterfeit Moogs. In any case, quality control in Chinese factories is well known to be so arbitrary that it's a joke - or would be if people hadn't died from defective and adulterated food products.

There have been some recent instances of defective Voyagers. I know of one in Britain, and the owner of that one mentioned someone in Australia with serious problems as well.

Moog themselves really need to clarify these issues. People don't just pay Moog prices for the Moog sound. They also pay for Moog build-quality and reliability, and if there's any danger of that being compromised then the company needs to address it. It's in their interests as well as their customers' interests. Cost-cutting could mean higher profits now but the end of the company not very far down the line.
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MLPS2
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Re: Do fake Chinese-made Moogs exist?

Post by MLPS2 » Tue May 31, 2011 11:36 am

Thanks for replying guys. I too haven't heard of any synths being counterfeited by China. But someone suggested that EVERYTHING is copied by China.
The cynical side of me widely assumes that maybe they are counterfeited and that some naughty dealers even sell those rather than the real thing. So I ask again, how can I verify that my Moog is the real deal?

MLPS2
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Re: Do fake Chinese-made Moogs exist?

Post by MLPS2 » Tue May 31, 2011 12:40 pm

Sweep wrote:... we do know that some parts of recent Moogs have been made in China. We know about keyboards, and I wonder if there are other parts as well.

So only the keyboard part is made in China? Hmm...
Why only the keyboard part? Where are the other parts made in? USA? Where are the Moogs assembled?

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MC
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Re: Do fake Chinese-made Moogs exist?

Post by MC » Tue May 31, 2011 1:28 pm

There are counterfeit components like the ua726 and others. An analog synth is way too complex to counterfeit compared to a guitar, lots of fake vintage Fenders or Gibsons out there. Fender stopped selling logo overlays for the headstocks way back in the 70s due to counterfeiters. Recently one fake Les Paul was even on display in the window of a local store.

One of the reasons companies will discontinue a component is because of counterfeits on the market. They will just assign a new part number.
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MLPS2
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Re: Do fake Chinese-made Moogs exist?

Post by MLPS2 » Tue May 31, 2011 2:36 pm

How sure are we that analogue Synthesizers cant be counterfeited? China seems to be counterfeiting everything from mobile phones to cars.

Sir Nose
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Re: Do fake Chinese-made Moogs exist?

Post by Sir Nose » Tue May 31, 2011 3:01 pm

MLPS2 wrote:
Sweep wrote:... we do know that some parts of recent Moogs have been made in China. We know about keyboards, and I wonder if there are other parts as well.

So only the keyboard part is made in China? Hmm...
Why only the keyboard part? Where are the other parts made in? USA? Where are the Moogs assembled?



Fatar makes the keyboards; so, they can come from fatar. http://www.fatar.com/pages/TP_8SK.htm and http://www.fatar.com/pages/TP_7BA.htm
I am not sure if they outsource any manufacturing.

The "boards" that were referred to being made in China on the LP were the circuit boards. Actual components on the circuit boards, probably china. As far as I know (not 100% on this one) , the circuit boards on the phatties are made, populated, and soldered in China.

All moogs undergo final assembly in Ashville, NC.

Brad
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Re: Do fake Chinese-made Moogs exist?

Post by Brad » Tue May 31, 2011 3:09 pm

Come on, guys. No one is going to reverse engineer and set up manufacturing for a product that sells, maybe, 1000 units a year.
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MLPS2
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Re: Do fake Chinese-made Moogs exist?

Post by MLPS2 » Tue May 31, 2011 3:41 pm

Brad wrote:Come on, guys. No one is going to reverse engineer and set up manufacturing for a product that sells, maybe, 1000 units a year.

1000 a year where? US alone or do you mean internationally? I would assume Moog sells much more analogue synths than that.

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Re: Do fake Chinese-made Moogs exist?

Post by Just Me » Tue May 31, 2011 4:16 pm

I wouldn't assume that. The serial numbers on them are pretty low. Not a high volume thing, these Moogs. My Voyager is in the 200's, but it is 5 years old or so. If there are much more than 2500 of them, I'd be surprised.
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Kevin Lightner
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Re: Do fake Chinese-made Moogs exist?

Post by Kevin Lightner » Tue May 31, 2011 6:36 pm

It is virtually impossible to buy any high tech device, car or PC today that doesn't have at least some Chinese parts in it.
Quality varies, but can be very good and is getting better throughout China.
Some US made parts have gotten worse over the years too. Switchcraft comes to mind.

Anyway, I agree with Chris Winkels' and MC's posts above.
I doubt you will run into counterfeit Minimoogs, be them Model D or Voyager.
Counterfeiting only makes sense in small parts sold in high volume or rare art pieces sold in small numbers.
It doesn't make any financial sense to copy a currently produced original.

However if one considers the Behringer marketing ethic (or lack of), it might be possible to one day see clones of Moogerfoogers, Etherwaves or even Lil Phattys.
Something like this could cost Moog a lot of money in legal fees.
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