Vintage, Voyager or Virtual - a comparison test

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EricK
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Post by EricK » Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:01 am

THere seems to be a lag on the Arturia Modular softsynth.
I love the sequencer it has on it.

THe minimoog works well but yes nothing like real knobs.
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Brian G
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Post by Brian G » Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:10 am

Thanks, glad everyone is enjoying the files. It was our pleasure to do them :)

Kevin, you know that's one we forgot to do :), I think we talked about it but somehow didn't get to it. Next time :).

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GregAE
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More Minimax observations

Post by GregAE » Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:47 am

Henfield wrote:One question on the Minimax, do you get any "stepping" when manipulating the knobs in real time (such as filter cutoff)? I noticed that all of your tests were static and did not use any manipulation of the sounds by rotating the knobs or using the pitch or mod wheels.
When the Minimax Filter Cutoff knob is adjusted there is no stepping, but there appears to be some kind of smoothing function applied that causes a slight bit of lag in response. By that, I mean that when you rotate the knob quickly, the filter cutoff 'slides' to the new position instead of following the absolute knob position in lock step, as on the Minimoog. The lag is slight, but it is there.

Regarding the Pitch Bend and Mod Wheel, the Minimax doesn't exhibit any stepping or sluggishness in response to PB or MW inputs from a MIDI controller - it's immediate and highly playable.

That said, there is stepping on some of the other controls, most noticeably in the oscillator 2 & 3 frequency knobs. Around the unison tuning position (12 o'clock), there's no stepping, and the control is as fine as you could want - especially important for those slight tuning offsets. As you rotate the frequency dial CW or CCW, however, the stepping becomes more noticeable, particularly at the extremes. It is also noticeable when those knobs are rotated very quickly. Since the oscillators are usually dialed-in for a patch and not generally not adjusted during a performance, this behavior probably isn't that much of a concern. Besides, since the Minimax is a VA, the oscillator tuning is rock solid, so retuning mid-performance isn't necessary (unless, of course, it's part of the performance. If you must detune the oscillators in any significant way during a performance, you're going to get some stepping).

One other thing to watch out for is that the Fine Tune control setting is included when a patch is saved. This bit of strange behavior means it's possible for one or more patches to be out of tune with the rest (imagine changing just one factory patch by adjusting the Fine Tune control and then saving that patch - as you scroll through the patches and play them, that one patch will then be out of tune with the others.)

Also, when you change the patch from monophonic to polyphonic operation, the Glide function switches out. The Minimax does not offer polyphonic glide. If the Glide was ON in Mono mode, it's gone when you switch to Poly mode. Mono/Poly Mode is saved with the patch.

Hope these observations help.

Nick2012
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Post by Nick2012 » Thu Dec 13, 2007 12:35 pm

Thanks for all your work on this!

Maybe it's just me, but, in the Lucky Man test, CreamWare sounded the sweetest. That was surprising and somewhat disappointing. Fortunately, in the other tests, CreamWare was not the hands-down winner. Had it been, I may have regretted buying the Voyager. But hey, it all boils down to originality, creativity and inspiration, right?. It's not about the factory presets, it's about creating new sounds. In that context I think I feel much more inspired tweaking the knobs on my Voyager than I would pointing and clicking a mouse.

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GregAE
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Post by GregAE » Thu Dec 13, 2007 1:22 pm

Nick2012 wrote:Thanks for all your work on this!
Your welcome! Brian and I had a blast in the studio putting this together, and we're both pleased and proud of the results.
Nick2012 wrote: Maybe it's just me, but, in the Lucky Man test, CreamWare sounded the sweetest.
One man's "sweetest" is another man's...
Nick2012 wrote: Fortunately, in the other tests, CreamWare was not the hands-down winner. Had it been, I may have regretted buying the Voyager.
But hey, it all boils down to originality, creativity and inspiration, right?. It's not about the factory presets, it's about creating new sounds. In that context I think I feel much more inspired tweaking the knobs on my Voyager than I would pointing and clicking a mouse.
As good as it is, the Creamware Minimax doesn't come close to the synthesis possibilities that the Voyager provides. If all you want is the sound and feel of a Minimoog, the Minimax would certainly get you there (it has sound, the same panel layout and the same I/O as a Model D). But if you really want the enhanced modulation capabilities, all of the terrific CV I/O and the expansion possibilities, nothing beats the Voyager. And don't forget the additional audio and CV expansion provided by the MoogerFoogers, which integrate nicely with the Voyager (if you haven't tried them, you owe it to yourself to check out a few 'Foogers to see what they can do with the Voyager).

For me, there's no other keyboard that inspires creativity and originality like the Voyager, and that is what it all boils down to.

Nick2012
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Post by Nick2012 » Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:12 pm

I fully intend on getting the expander and the cv processor. For now though I'm having fun just exploring all the programmable mod routing possibilities in the EDIT menu.

It's good to know that CreamWare's virtual minimoog is modeled after the D and not the Voyager.

Nick2012
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Post by Nick2012 » Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:16 pm

By the way... are you a member of VS Planet? I ask because you used a VS2480, which I also own.

Brian G
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Post by Brian G » Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:30 pm

Yes, I've been on VS Planet since 2001ish.

peterkadar
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Post by peterkadar » Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:25 pm

In all, seven comparison tests were performed, plus a waveform test. You can hear all of the test audio clips here:

https://www.moogmusic.com/members/?sect ... &cat_id=49
The audio files are gone... I would have loved to have heard these results..

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GregAE
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Post by GregAE » Fri Mar 12, 2010 7:44 am

peterkadar wrote:
In all, seven comparison tests were performed, plus a waveform test. You can hear all of the test audio clips here:

https://www.moogmusic.com/members/?sect ... &cat_id=49
The audio files are gone... I would have loved to have heard these results..
The complete "Vintage, Voyager or Virtual" article and audio clips are posted on KnobTweak:

KT > Files > Voyager > Vintage, Voyager or Virtual

- Greg

PeteJames
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Re: Vintage, Voyager or Virtual - a comparison test

Post by PeteJames » Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:10 pm

Any chance of getting the test files'? I would really love to hear them (that's why I signed up :mrgreen: )

Got this error message "The Moog Space section of the site is not currently being supported."

roccoofthesnow
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Re: Vintage, Voyager or Virtual - a comparison test

Post by roccoofthesnow » Mon Apr 25, 2022 10:36 pm

This is brilliant. I know I'm late to this thread, but bravo.

I'm wondering if you have some decent rules of thumb when it comes to voyager knob positions (or their respective MIDI values) in relation to the Model D. When I try to do similar tests with my voyager and Model D Soft synths, I find it's really hard to match the Filter/volume attack, decay, etc.

Any tips ?

Thanks again!

Acid Mitch
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Re: Vintage, Voyager or Virtual - a comparison test

Post by Acid Mitch » Tue Apr 26, 2022 8:00 am

My advice would be "use your ears" because the knob positions won't line up.
Sometimes using visualisation helps, like oscilloscope, frequency analyser or recording into your daw or audio editor and comparing waveforms.

puritumse
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Re: Vintage, Voyager or Virtual - a comparison test

Post by puritumse » Tue Jun 28, 2022 9:33 am

Nice work, Brian and Greg! I applaud your efforts! I also appreciate the additional info on making authentic Minimoog sounds with the Voyager . 19216811.bid
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