If you are an experienced listener to some degree, dynamics are more important. But when comparing two pieces, like on the radio or ipod mix, the average listener (who is most likely not paying attention or actively listening) will hear a more compressed/clipped song as compared to the last song, and perceive it to be louder, and therefore, “better”. So it’s purely a psychological comparison thing to say “loudness is better”, but it is true, otherwise the loudness war would not exist.
Let’s not forget the most important aspect of these loudness wars: the commercial one.
Especially for radio stations who have limited bandwidth and dynamic range.
But, sadly, it could have been beneficial if it had been done wisely and with moderation. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with expanding the dynamic range, stereo imaging field, and even raise the overall level of audio recordings a few decibels when re-mastering old tapes. But not to the current, absurd distorted levels we are hearing.
Best example: I was fortunate enough to have been able to get my hands on pre-release recordings of a well known progressive rock band (I know their drummer) before they added the “loudness war” factor to it. And when I got a copy of the official CD release, I couldn’t believe how bad it sounded when compared to my copy. In that case, louder was definitely not better.
Unfiltered37 - I think you are using the ‘quote code’ wrong here, it was actually Mr.Arkadian who said that and to me at least it seemed quite tongue in cheek…
*edit, I see thealien666 pointed the above point out whilst I was typing…
Let’s try not get too caught up in semantics/subjective interpretations/subjective preferences and get yet another otherwise interesting and informative thread deleted, eh?
I think that for one to assert that the human ear can tolerate analog produced sounds indefinately whereas digital sounds create “ear fatigue” is highly irrational.
You’re right. I grow tired of listening to my neighbor’s analog, gas powered, diamond blade cutter he’s using everyday for the last week now, renovating his patio bricks driveway !
I wouldn’t say indefinitely, music and sound and any sensory stimuli to excess can cause fatigue and headache. But digital music, especially mp3’s, definitely have ear fatigue that kicks in only after a few minutes of listening. I can listen to mixes, even with crap I don’t like but am mixing, many more times without my ears hurting. Maybe it’s irrational, but teachers and engineers at the recording school I went to agree. It has to do with the way that analog tends to be “warmer” in the bass, while compressing the highs, making them smoother to the ear and more like natural sounds we hear all the time. And when making song mixes for class, people will choose to use the tape machines rather than pro tools because of the fatigue that digital audio causes. It’s not that difficult to believe, we hear continuous waves all of our lives.
And live music is another thing, I can listen to bands playing through amps and a PA all night at loud levels, but listening to a DJ playing computer music or mp3’s get old fast and not because of content.
There used to be a commercial on three seperate classic rock stations in this area that broadcast at the same moment…SUNDAY SUNDAY SUNDAY! GREAT LAKES DRAGAWAY IN UNION GRRROVE! FUNNY CAR MADNESS! WATCH TOP FUEL DRAGSTERS SPEEDING DOWN THE STRAIGHTAWAY AT 300 MILES PER HOUR! THIS SUNDAY, AT GREAT LAKES DRAGAWAY IN UNION GRRROVE! BE THERE!
It was always 10dB (or more) louder than anything else on the radio.
By the way unfiltered37, for the record I like analogue tape for most of the reasons you do - the actual scientific ones like saturation, not the unscientific ones like that it’s louder or is less fatiguing, or the facile reason of impressing someone with a big machine. Wow and flutter and tape hiss I can live without though.
My argument with you is your zealotry in regards to analogue tape. Sure, maybe if I’d done better at school I would have a high paying job where I could afford a tape machine, a big enough house to put it in, not to mention the cost of tape stock and upkeep/spares. But I didn’t and I can’t. It’s your right to prefer analogue tape, but you do it at the denigration of others. Like a zealot, you are right and there’s no grey with you. Anyone using digital sucks.
Please, let’s stick to comparing oranges with oranges here. You cannot compare a live musical performance by a band, to studio recorded music played back through digital media. Because in that case, content plays a HUGE role.
If you had said: the recorded live performance of a band to analog tape, versus the same live performance played through digital media, then it would have been a fair comparison.
Whoa, dude, a little dramatic. When did I ever say anyone using digital sucks. You’re putting words in my mouth. Up till now we had a decent discussion going, now you’re going to get the thread deleted. And BTW anyone who likes hardware or wants to attract clients to a studio knows that flash is necessary, just ask Keith Emerson who tours with a Moog Modular and plays minimoog patches with it or anyone who owns a Voyager with backlights. I know tape has it’s drawbacks, but I was responding to a post about its benefits, that’s why I listed them.