Voyager Motu 828mkII Sysex Update Quest

The Moog Forum Minimoog Forum
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Hi, I’ve been reading through some threads and haven’t found one addressing harware issues between the Voyager and Motu 828mkII.

I’m running OS 2.0 on my Voyager and have downloaded the Mac Editor demo (running on an old G4 Powerbook with 10.3.5), as well as Sysex and Midi Monitor utilities. I work as Apple tech support – so you might imagine my reluctance to post a cry for help, but I am truly stumped.

I’ve been using Sysex to transmit bank B of the 2.5 sysex update and the voyager receives the updates, as shown by it’s progress bar, but then I get the dramatic “…Failed!!!” message. The MIDI Out indicator on the 828 confirms the message it transmitting, but the MIDI led on the Voyager never indicates its received anything – this was the only thing that seemed odd to me.

As for the Voyager settings, I have both MIDI In/Out set to 1, with In/Out functions switched on, the MIDI Merge function off, Sysex ID set to 1, and have updated the driver for the mkII. I also tried running disk utility and restarting a few times. I’m confused because the MIDI functionality has worked great so far, been able to control Reason via the Voyager and sequence the Voyager from the Handsonic.

I’ve even been able to back-up my edited Presets and system info via Sysex – seems to receive fine. When using the Midi Monitor app as a troubleshooter, it confirms that Sysex is working correctly. My guess is that it’s something buggy with the 828 driver, but I just installed an update yesterday,

If anyone knows of any compatibility successes or failures between the Voyager and 828mkII, I’d love to hear about it. If you can discern a user error from what I’ve written, please point it out. I should mention that I’m trying to upgrade to 2.5 in order to take advantage of the Mac Editor, but haven’t had different results using its update function either. Again, this makes me think the 828 is the culprit.

I’d be grateful for any advice – hope everyone’s week’s going well,
Optimus

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Try to sent the update data by the Mac OS X freeware http://www.snoize.com/SysExLibrarian/ SysEx Librarian to test it with a different software.

And have you set the Voyager to receive the update in the Master Menu 5.4 ?
This maybe a foolish question to ask, but things happen …

I am also running a old G4 PowerBook on Mac OS X but version 10.3.6 here.

And just for the books:
The channel setting for the MIDI in and out of the Voyager isn’t needed at all for SysEx, because SysEx has no channel flag. SysEx is always transmitted and received in a kind of “omni” mode.

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We’re defiinitely on the same page – that’s the utility I was referring to when I said “Sysex” - I know I should have been clearer on that. Good pick-up on the receive update – didn’t mention that because I referred to the status bar on the Voyager receiving a signal, but that could occur under a different function – you think like a problem solver!

Thanks for the tip about omni mode, that would explain why Sysex Librarian doesn’t require you to specify an outgoing channel.

So, it looks like you fully understand what’s going on, what would you do next? Do you think it’s a bug in the driver or are there known issues with Sysex updates failing? I was worried the Sysex ID might need to be something other than 1 on the Voyager. Since you’re an OSX user, would you have any info on Audio/Midi Utility settings? My impression with the 828 at least, is that there’s not much to be done there.

Either way, thanks again for the help – nice to know the Moog community’s so quick to respond!

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Updates all went smooth on here using the set up I described and using my Emagic mt4 interface. And I am not only updating Moog synths here from time to time.

If you see the Voyager is receiving the update by the progress bar and/or the MIDI indicator LED, then there is something wrong with the data transmitted or received.

Lets test for a MIDI loop:
unplug the cable that is connected to the Voyager’s MIDI out.
And dump the SysEx after getting the Voyager in the right “mood” for system updates again.

Another test:
log your self out off the Mac and lock in again. Only start the SysEx Librarian and nothing else. Maybe you have some other data being sended out during the update. Maybe MIDI Clock or TimeCode. This is known to responseable for not working larger SysEx dumps on other synths.

If this is not working, then you should try a different MIDI interface from a freind to make sure its the interface only. Maybe visit a friend with a Mac OS X MIDI interface with your Voyager and the PowerBook under your arms. And have a great session later.

you think like a problem solver!

Thanks ! I used to be a Waldorf beta tester. And I have to debug my little applications also. See the thread with my Mac OS X renaming tool for the Voyager I released about 48 hours ago.

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You know, I bet you’re right. The 828 installs a graphical Console app that auto-starts and hides upon login (keep forgetting to turn that off) – I bet it might be responsible for fogging-up the Sysex dump. I’ll switch it off and try logging in again.

Regarding the MIDI loop test, am I basically just reattempting the same dump from the cpu to the Voyager using Sysex Librarian, but with only 1 MIDI capable connected to the Voyager’s MIDI-IN?

I’ll be able to try both of these things this afternoon after work – been limiting my update efforts to an hour after work to prevent it from eating my entire session.

Thanks once more for the suggestions – I’ll give both a try and send you an update.

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Regarding the MIDI loop test, am I basically just reattempting the same dump from the cpu to the Voyager using Sysex Librarian, but with only 1 MIDI capable connected to the Voyager’s MIDI-IN?

Yep !

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Nice! Much appreciated –

Straying off topic, as a Waldorf tester, I’m sure you’re familiar with their line. Knowing the Voyager’s sound, is there any synth in particular that Waldorf makes/made that you feel compliments the Voyager particularly well?

If you’re busy, no worries – just thought I’d be curious for a min. I’m just still looking for that sidekick synth!

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Mmmh,
I would got for the Waldorf WAVE of couse.
See my page: http://unofficial.waldorf-wave.de

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Wow – I checked that out, I think I’ll take one…any chance I could borrow about $10,000? I know the US Dollar is weak right now, but come on, help a brother out!

Nice sounds – thanks again for the help today…that was one nice looking synth

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Just an observation I have found.

I have had verious problems updating the Voyager and my other analogues with different MIDI interfaces . . Steinberg 2x2, M-Audio 8x8, Delta1010, MicroKontrol etc but the one that has always worked flawlessly from all of my Mac G4’s and G5’s (laptops and towers) has been the emagic mt4 - don’t know why but it works everytime.

Mal

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Optimusrob

The Waldorf Wave is a bit pricey. Check out the Waldorf Q. I find that it compliments my AE Voyger very nicely and it might not kill your bank account!!

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Thanks Mal and theglyph – I’ll check out the Q and try another interface – still no luck using the 828 for the OS update, but at least the Voyager is working well!

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So, good news and bad.

The good is that the operating system finally updated and now says 2.5 when the Voyager starts up. The bad is that after uploading the anniversary edition presets, all the letters are displayed as fragments and upon turning the Voyager on, it states “the operating system must be reloaded, reload bank C?”

I try to do this and it says “Sysex Failed!!!” I then tried to make sure the Sysex ID, etc. was all correct and realized half of the menu items are gone and replaced by RESERVED with some message from Rudi (the programmer, I guess).

So, I tried updating the OS again, and it failed. Now my Voyager will not load any patches or even display the patch text – just fragments of letters. The only thing I could do is initialize the panel settings and then it displays full text.

I have no idea what to do – have family coming into town this evening and am supposed to play for them. I now can’t even load a patch. Please help.

Just to recap, I confirmed the update contained F0 and F7 messages, tried sending with the pause setting in 6 different positions, usually between 250 and 600. In the AudioMidi Utility, the Motu has not editable presets, but I was able to uncheck midi timestamping from the Voyager icon and assign it a Sysex ID of 1 – that seemed to get the update working the first time.

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By chance there wouldn’t be some parameter turned on that inserts an (x)ms pause between MIDI bytes would there?

Some MIDI modules can’t swallow large MIDI chunks all at once, this might be turned on by default.

Not a Mac/motu user, but that is my next hardware upgrade :slight_smile:

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Definitely a possibility. Are you familiar with the Sysex Librarian by chance? There are two settings in those preferences and I think one refers to a pause of some sort.

I thought I had read in previous threads that a setting too low would cause the Voyager to not keep up with the transmission. Perhaps it’s the other way around? I haven’t tried turning that completely down, as the readme it came with suggested a level around 250.

I’m willing to try anything at this point, though I think I’ve been like that since my first semester as an undergrad!

Thanks for your advice – much appreciated!

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The Voyager Mac editor’s OS update utility sends the sysex data to Midi Out port at a rate of 256 packets at a time. This number seemed to be adequate for most interfaces. We can try to increase or decrease this number to suit your interface or make it user defined so “time out” on MV receiving side does not occur. The MV OS system is protected by the checksum so the update failure is not fatal. If opdate fails then MV reboots and the “old” system is restored. We will make changes to the editor OS Update utility described above in the next update.

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I use the 50 msec setting on the SysEx Librarian software here. This setting works well with all my synths and my rather basic Emagic mt4 MIDI interface.
The second parameter of the SysEx Librarian software preference is the time out for receiving SysEx data. this is not used on your problem at all. But I use the 1 sec value here.
What version of the SysEx Librarian software are you using?
I am on the newest version: 1.04
And it worked well with my Voyger on the Mac OS 10.3.4 to 10.3.6

Maybe download the OS files again to make sure the files ae not corrupted somehow.

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Thanks, Qwave!

I’m running the same version of Sysex and think that the first setting might be the culprit.

I’ll download fresh files and try again this afternoon mirroring your settings. Hopefully tomorrow will bring better news – I’ll post an update either way.

Your help is always appreciated!

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Just wanted to thank everyone for their help – especially Qwave for enduring all of my questions. Here’s a description of what lead to the final fix. I’ll be more than happy to clarify anything for those encountering similar problems. Happy Holidays to all –

I’m not 100% certain exactly what fixed it, but I suspect it involved turning off time-stamping for the Motu 828mkII. This is a feat in itself because that is not an option accessible by the Audio/Midi utility or any of the Motu-installed utilities. For some reason the properties section of the 828 under Audio/Midi is “locked” and cannot be edited.

Sooo…after becoming desperate last night – still nothing was working – I opened up the Audio editor the 828 came bundled with called AudioDesk and found some setting called Transmit Sync under the Studio menu. In there, the option for MIDI Time Clock was checked, so I disabled that. This should have been accessible outside of Audiodesk, which is what I suspect the soon-to-be-released 828 driver update might resolve. Either way I’m now running 2.5 and was able to load/unload AE presets and reload my settings without loss – so I’m a happy Moogist once again. In review here are the settings that finally worked for future reference:

Sysex Librarian preferences:
Transmission pause = 60ms
Sysex Timeout = 1sec
Midi Out= “Midi Port” (created by Motu 828mkII)

OSX AudioMidi Utility settings:
Moog sysex ID=1
All Midi options unchecked (General Midi, Timestamp, etc)
In/Out connections made between Moog icon and Motu icon

Motu Firewire Console Settings:
clock source: Macintosh built-in

Audiodesk settings:
Under Studio/Transmit Sync/ choose “echo” instead of “Midi Timestamp”
– Top two pulldown menu choices for sync options set to none
Under Studio/Receive Sync/ choose a port other than the one your using – do not choose “any”

In this case, upon powering up my Voyager requested an operating system reinstall upon start-up, choosing “yes” led the the second tier of the receive update menu, choosing yes to confirm lead to a message erasing flash memory, and then the screen requesting Bank C. I transmitted the 2.5 C bank (sysex) and it was successful. I chose receive update again, confirmed yes, warned erasing flash memory, and it requested A bank – transmitted 2.5 A bank (sysex) successfully. Chose receive update once more, confirmed yes, erased flash, it didn’t request any back, said ready to receive banks A,B,C or D. I sent 2.5 B bank (sysex) and it was successful. I then reloaded my presents after choosing receive presets and sending the sysex file. Everything looked fine. Switched Voyager on/off , works like a charm.

Only reason I mentioned all of this is b/c immediately before doing the above, I chose “no” to the initial reinstall request and proceeded directly to the receive update menu, confirmed yes, erased Flash, but this time it requested Bank A first – which I sent and received the “Sysex failed!!” message. So, if anyone encounters the same problem, make sure they choose yes on the reinstall request during power-up that requests the C bank first.

Again, the setup used was a Mac G4 running 10.3.5 and Sysex Librarian 1.04, and a Motu 828mkII running Audiodesk v. 2.02.

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Ah, a happy ending just in time for the holiday guests :smiley: