One thing that really amazes me about what I read here in these forums is that people talk about fine points of the Voyager but not much about MIDI and all those wonderful connections in the back (which are by the why why I bought a Voyager).
One of the complaints that I hear about the Voyager is that its only monophonic and that it has a limited set of sounds. I frankly see that belief is for limited minds. I have a Korg M3. I love it. It has a plethora of alll types of sounds and it sounds great. It can layer sounds, sequence them, modulate them in all sorts of ways, run them though a treasure chest of all sorts of effects and its has the most powerful music generation system on the planet, KARMA. So why did I even think of buying a monophonic synth with a limited sound set?
Simple. First, it’s analogue. I got mine yesterday and two things happened. First, I started to tweak right off the bat and out came sounds that I simply can’t get with that massive M3 (and don’t get me wrong, I love my M3). Second, it has MIDI. That means that the KARMA from my M3 can do all sorts of things to my Voyager. What is weak in the M3 (lack of analogue goodness) will be suplemented by the Voyager and what is weak in the Voyager (lack of high tech tools) are supplemented by the M3).
I also want to get Vota and control my Voyager from “The Silent Way” from expert sleepers which creates DC coupled voltages from an audio interface.
Combine this with moogerfoogers and a whole new universe is opened up.
So is the Voyager limited? Only for those who can’t see the riches those strange lilttle holes in the back and that one that says “MIDI” have to offer.
The Voyager truly is unlimited. With the CV in, expandable CV outs, audio In/Outs, midi routing and ability to chain multiple Voyagers together for polyphony, there isn’t much this thing can’t do. It is only limited to your budget and time available for tweaking knobs, parameters and making patches.
I had a similar realization with my Access Virus. It is a virtual analog, yet the “analog sounds” it emulated weren’t what I liked or wanted to hear. That was really frustrating to me that such a beautiful synth with so many features couldn’t make what I wanted. Then I started buying analog synthesizers (Arp Odyssey, MoogerFoogers, Korg MS-20, etc) and I instantly found what I was missing all along. I have since sold the Virus and never once wished I hadn’t.
I don’t see myself selling my M3. It’s sounds great but its a different animal. I don’t really expect it to sound like an anlalogue synth although it has some analogue samples. Korg’s philosophy is pretty digital. They don’t try to be something they are not. I love both digital and analogue for different reasons. They both sound good to me but for different sounds. My M3 has some great pianos, electric pianos, organs and lots of instrument sounds.
As for the Virus, I just don’t think any virtual analogue synths can sound that good. The Virus has a certain sound that some people like and I think thats great if that is what you are looking for but don’t tell me its analogue. Synths are usually made with a particular sound and market in mind and some like the Virus develop a following because people like their sound.
I do think the idea that one can write a program that is going to do what analogue circuts do is flawed at a fundamental level and I don’t think it has anything to do with how powerful a CPU might be. digital is always going to be “discontionous”. It works with 0s and 1s and not streams of electrons. You can make a model of just about anything with a computer but in the end, its just a model and its going to have its flaws.
I wanted to clarify what I mean by limited. Compared to some of the soft synths I have, yes, its limited. Without going into a lot of detail, Reaktor would be a great example. If you want to take the time to create synths from modular components, Reaktor is fantastic or even if you just want to use some of the more esoteric synths. The sonic range of Reaktor is vast compared to the Voyager when you think in terms of archetechture.
But when you consider what you can do with control voltages and the Voyager, a whole new world opens up. Moogerfoogers and modular synth modules along with the wide world of MIDI (things such as KARMA) offer a whole universe of sound.
To me, these two universes of digital and analogue are hard to really compare. What is limited in one way is not in another. However, what most fixed archetechture analogue synths lack are CV ins and outs. Thats a really really important plus for the Voyager that in my mind sets it leaps and bounds above any synth out there.
The Voyager can be integrated into a modular system at a pretty deep level not just to provide audio. It’s more like those synth in a module modules that have come out and yet, it is an instrument in itself.
Voyager has a logic to it that I simply don’t see in any other synth on the market and its why it fits into my synthesizer needs.
Can you use the M3 touchscreen to mod the filter etc of the Voyager?
I’m hoping the Taurus responds to all the M3’s controllers. Then I will rule the world! Well, this corner anyway…
I have, but only by people that have never touched a Voyager.
One guy swore up and down that a Voyager only makes one or two computer sounds, yet after asking, I found out he’s only seen photos of them, nothing more.
There must be an urban legend out there that a Voyager is like a modular system that only makes computer noise.
I am not sure it does. I know that KARMA definately is sent out the MIDI stream but I am not sure about all the controllers. The manual probably has this info so I will check.
In many ways I understand where the criticism of modulars comes from. If you look on You Tube you will find that even demos from the synth makes usually feature a modular plugged into a sequencer, sample and hold or a drum machine. Not a real assesment of what a modular can do but proof of how one can get the wrong impression.
I think the Voyagers real strength lies first in the fact that its archetechture is somewhat streamlined but that makes each knob important and part of the performance of any music which uses it. I have experienced the other side where there are so many parameters to control that the music can get lost in the mix.
Moog clearly understood the musican and he realized that an instrument has to have the feel of an instrument, not a computer. If some parameter is buried deep inside several nested menus then sound design becomes an intellectual excercise more than a musical one. There are ways around this. The Korg M3 for example has assignable sliders, switches and controllers, but the entire design of the Minimoog and the Voyager is oriented towards both performance (the front panel) and experimentation (the back panel). If you look at the Yamaha CS-80, The ARP 2600 or Odyssey, you see the same focus on joining sound design and performance.
I also think the Voyager, by perhaps focusing concentration on essential parameters, and by allowing inteface both using MIDI and a wide range of devices with a control voltage, including Moogerfoogers, it encourages creativity. Let’s face it, the person who may praise a synth with hundreds of parameters, is propably only tweaking a pre-set slightly.
One can become intimate with a Voyager and iin that way, as Moog stated in an interview with Red Bull Academy, it becomes and extention of the musican. I totally understand that reasoning. If I did not I would not have bought a Voyager. I also think that by narrowing the focus in one way (parameters) but opening it up to control voltages and MIDI, the universe of sounds is just as large just not in the same way.
I have been listening to Tangerine Dream lately and I am very impressed with their music but when you look at what they are doing, and their equipment list (which includes a Minimoog), you can see that their use of synths is in many ways simple but also very creative and artistic. The same can be said of Pink Floyd and many of the early electronic artists like Karheintz Stockhausen who had a lot less to work with than even a Minimoog but found ways to be creative.
Consider the equipment list of Alvin Lucier’s work “Clocker”:
Alarm Clock
Analogue Delay
Galvanic skin response device used to control the delay.
Or look at the early composers of music concrete.
I think sometimes we get the idea that if a little is good, more is better but in synthesizers, I am not sure that that always works msuically. Sometimes, it creates a mentality that sound design is all about taking someone else’s design and tweaking it. Soft synths even have built in random tweaks. It takes a more subtle genius to open up a door to creativity and musicality and I think that is what the Voyager si all about.
A lot of softsynth and VA users depend on the onboard FX to get unique sounds. Those who find the Voyager limited probably have only heard the installed dry presets, and they probably are unaware of the CV capabilities.
I think many people like to claim the Voyager has “limited sounds” as justification for not coming up with the cash to purchase one.
First, let me complement you on you music. Good, solid, old school EM, what I like myself. Well done. I am going to get one of your albums. I have been listening a lot lately to music that is more out of the mainstream because frankly, that’s where the real artists are.
I strongly suspect that what you are saying is right. If you just look at a Voyager from the front and even watch the videos on the Moog we site you see something that looks like a Miinimoog. The basic design of the Voyager is very similar to the Minimoog but the similarities end there. A simple glance at the back panel reveals a lot of power for the experimental or ambient musican, both of us for example. Unlike virtual analogues, there is also no limit to what you can plug into the back. Have foogers or modular, will travel.
I also agree about effects. I am fairly light on effects. I like a good reverb, some delay and perhaps some flanging, phase shifting or chorus to fatten things but there are lots of cheap options on the digital side for these. I also think one would be pretty hard pressed to find a set of digital effects on a virtual analogue that are as flexible as what you can do with the expansion box (which is pretty cheap) for the Voyager and foogers.
Many are also conditioned by the workstations into believing that its the number of sounds a synth has that makes it great. There are plenty of sample libraries out there so frankly, how many samples a synth has, while important, is certainly not the measure of how good a synth it is. You can sample anything but you can’t turn a knob on a digital synth and get the kind of sounds you can get with a Voyager. Sample as much as you want but its impossible to sample every combination of know.
Your welcome. Good luck with it. I always support artists such as yourself. I think we live in interesting times where all types of music become more accessible. The mainstream record companies are still trying to fit music into narrow categories but with the itnternet, in terms of both marketing and distribution, people get to hear things they might otherwise not have had an opportunity to hear.
I had the exact same thing happen to me…i sold my virus just last week…i got my voyager OS 3 weeks after i bought the virus TI.they were my first hardware synths..i just could not look at the virus in the same light after that…even though i love experimental digital sounds the sound just lacked this depth that the voyager sound has..it did not sound that much better than any good vst synth..the wavetables were good fun but not worth $2100 which is what a voyager oldschool costs…the voyager was everything i hoped a hardware synth would feel and sound like…the virus was not…with the money from the virus ive just ordered a new semi modular Oberheim SEM and a Sherman Filterbank
Analog Goodness FTW
now i just need a nice analog polysynth…and maybe a waldorf for some wavetable action…and a modular effects rack…and…
You know it is good to hear this. I loved the virus c when I first heard it back in 2004. I was buying my kurzweil at the time and had the chance to play on it and the andromeda through excellent speakers. There were days I was sorry I bought the kurzweil instead because it isn’t very immediately gratifying. Now that I have the moog and and the sampling option installed I keep going to the kurz more and more.
I also have always wondered if I should pick up an old desktop virus just to satisfy the lust I once had for it… maybe a really cheap used b or something but I can always think of better ways to spend it. That is 500 bucks towards the new SEM or a Future retro or cp251. I don’t think there is much more digital I’m going to be doing in the future unless it excels in area I find myself interested in like the machinedrum.
I think one needs to appreciate what sounds DO come out of a synth, be it digital or analogue. It all boils down to what kind of music you are creating. Since I produce ambient and experimental, it is not important for my digital synths to sound like an ARP, Moog, or whatever. I don’t expect my Waldorf Q to sound like a Moog or any other analogue instrument. However, it makes wonderful Waldorf Q sounds that I find very useful for my purposes. If I was making Keith Emerson-like or Devo-like music, then I would not consider a digital synth.
I can’t agree more with your comment. I now have a Voyager and a Korg M3 and I am not getting rid of either of them. I have stated elsewhere that I don’t consider myself to be in either a digital or analogue camp and I think of the whole arguement in many ways to be conterproductive although I admit it may have sounded like that when I started this thread.
What do I beleive:
First, that analogue and digital are night and day. They are different animals. I spent the last few days delighting in the sounds coming from my new Voyager but I can also delight in the sounds coming from my M3 or soft synths. What I do believe is that they they powerful complement one another.
I go to the M3 for instrument sounds, beatiful pianos, organs, strrings, brass, vocals, you name it. Beautiful and not thin. They are samples so they sound like what they recorded from for the most part with some filtering and effects. But the analogue stuff on the M3, even the Radius which is an analogue emulator, does sound thin.
Now I can also run 16 layers of sound on the M3 with effects and have nothing crash or make nasty digital burb sounds (I love those). That being said, I can’t get a keyboard to make the sounds that Absynth, FM8, Reaktor or some of my other soft synths make. So once again, its a mater of one complementing the other not necessarily being better than the other.
One of the things I want to do is use my M3 KARMA to sequence my Voyager and perpahs but some evolving soundscapes on my M3 pads. Lots of posiblities. I am a strong believer in cross beeding synthesizers including analogue and digital.
So take it or leave it, I llove both analogue and digital but not for the same reasons.
Thanks Lux_Seeker for that info,i have both the Karma and Voyager,and it hadn’t occurred to me to use the Karma function for that.Another universe to explore:)
