I’m wondering if anyone knows of a set or table of parameters for the factory sounds shipped with the Source. Something so that we can restore the sounds manually by adjusting the various parameters, since there’s no factory reset. It seems like this information should exist somewhere, but I can’t seem to find it…
There were cassette tapes available back when the Source was still being made that included factory and alternative sounds.
I have some here, however I think some tapes only work with certain revs of the Source and I’m not really sure which versions they’re for.
While I cannot be certain of their quality or applicable rev of Source they work for, I’ve sampled in many of these tapes.
Here is what I have:
Gary Wright no drum 2.2 master.wav
Gary Wright 3180 and above.wav
Devo sounds no drum 2.2 master.wav
moog source sn to 3180 3.2 factory.wav
moog source sounds.mp3
Again, I can’t say if they’ll work or not, or even if they’ll wipe out all existing sounds in the instrument and leave the owner with nothing.
If I uploaded these, would anyone appreciate it?
Located in the back of the original Source manual were the written out parameters for all 16 factory patches. You could manually enter the values for each patch and save them that way. There are a few links out there for a PDF version of the Source Owners Manual.
Link with many synth manuals
There is even a zip file with the factory programs written out there.
The interesting part of the factory tapes is they also included the 2 sequencer and program sequencer data. I know I used the cassette interface more for saving sequences. Was always curious what were on those tapes, especially the Jan Hammer one. I suppose one could load the data into a Source and write each patch out like in the manual to get a record of the presets. But the sequence data could not be as easily documented. My Source came loaded from the factory with sequences from Tarkus via Keith Emerson. Was cool for it’s time. Would have to dig up the 5 pin DIN cable or make one for the audio data input.
CZ, I’m curious how you located that page?
There appears to be no front page link to the manuals, but maybe I missed it.
Good find though.
I’m also quite happy that most, if not all, of their manuals didn’t come from my site.
Many manual sites have taken their manuals directly from my site, provided no credit or even stamped or watermarked their own site name across the pages.
Perhaps it’s petty of me, but for those that have done lots of scanning and photoshopping, it’s well understood it can take considerable work.
In some cases, I even paid for the manuals just to scan and upload.
For example, the calibration papers on the MidiMoog (or MidiMini) I had to pay $75 to Studio Electronics to obtain.
But at the time I had much more money and felt the internet world would benefit from something that’s never been published before.
Finally, making a plug for the cassette input on a Source is really no big deal.
Obtain the right plug and cut off one end of an 1/8th inch patchcord, solder two wires and you’re done.
Use two patchcords if you also want cassette dumps from the Source.
The Source is not as picky as some synths are (Jupiter 6, for example) in terms of input input levels.
Phase however can often be a make or break proposition.
Sometimes samples can be inverted 180 degrees and while some synths don’t mind, others certainly do.
So if you ever download cassette dumps and they don’t work, consider running that audio through an inverter first or doing the same in a sample editor.
Just Googled it. I had two copies of the Source OM on my hard drive. One was 2 Megs and readable. The other was higher resolution, more like 8 Megs, and I think that was the same as the one in the link. There was a home page, but my link was one page in.
Have that special cable here from Radio Shack. Quite a few synths used that same one. I thinK the Casio CZ-5000 and CZ-230S used it for sequence dumps. I do remember the recorder I had worked better on batteries, since the crappy AC adapter added noise that would interfere with the data transfer.
FWIW those schematics you have posted help many people out. Not long ago someone on Muff’s was trying to add sockets a Prodigy. I pointed them in your direction with the Section 6 of the Prodigy service manual, that outlines these modifications. He was very greatfull and it saved a lot of guessing. Many had never seen that section of the manual.
I should get busy and scan some of the manuals I have here. I have the full Prodigy manual of all 8 sections with the important Section 5A and 5B for tuning/aligning both revision Prodigy models.
Also have a Sonic-Six manual that includes the early schematics of the diode ladder filter. Didn’t realize I have an early one with that diode filter that uses the CA3039.
Also have quite a few of those Moog Interface newsletters and the full Modular schematics. There are a few pages not in the online version, and I’m sure I could get a better resolution on those pullout pages like the Model 15 mixer/ rev. attenuator page.
Must get busy!
You’re very right about this above.
I do the same on my cassette player for the very same reasons and it’s great tip that I overlooked.
Thanks for mentioning it.
Better players such as home stereo cassette decks are often better simply because they are better built.
Lower noise, flutter, hum and more accurate speed and transport mechanisms.
But I still usually use an old Radio Shack player that can operate on batteries simply because it’s portable.
Recently I got so pissed about all the AC hum when it’s powered from the mains that I took it apart to replace all the caps.
I was surprised to find that even though caps have gotten smaller over the years, this particular deck was built with even smaller caps.
So I’ll have to special order much smaller caps just for them to fit. This I didn’t expect.
Fwiw, I still have reams of technical documents I haven’t scanned.
I have a huge number of old Moog internal documents for such things as the Polymoog that have never been seen by anyone outside of Moog.
Check lists, assembly notes, order of operations, calibration tips, drawings and bill of materials.
Documents made for their assembly line techs that were never released publicly.
Also stacks of such documents and many pages of updates, addendums, corrections and such for various synths, not just Moog.
I’ve tried to put some up (such as Oberheim updates), but many of the others require a larger scanner or considerable photoshop work to be readable.
My server allows me unlimited space on their server, but my entire site is only about 4 gigs because of the work necessary to make many unscanned docs usable by others.
Also many documents up on my site were scanned 17 years ago when I first put up the site.
Then, bandwidth was much less and so many of my docs are lower resolution than what’s commonplace today.
I should rescan many items, but seeing how my site has no advertisements, it’s an expense to me to redo all that work today that I can’t justify doing.
Finally, I just looked at some of my original cassette tapes and also found the factory sounds for the Memorymoog.
If or when I can sample in that tape, I may upload it and make a separate section for just cassette dumps.
All it takes is time and work but that’s easier said than done.
Before you sample the data tapes, it would be a good idea to test them on a Memorymoog using your tape player. I have run into tape players where playback speed was different enough that the data wouldn’t load. The leader frequencies from the cassette have to be within a certain range or it won’t load.
I also used an old Radio Shack tape player with batteries. That player finally broke, by which time the only device in my arsenal still using tape backups was my Memorymoog. But since all my patches are on patch sheets, I have paper backups.
Another tip: use cassettes specifically designed for computer data. Alas these are no longer available. The media on regular cassette tapes has too many dropouts especially as it ages. In the absence of data cassettes, I made multiple backups (four in my case) that way I always had at least one that worked.
And your scanning of service docs is much appreciated, as the Oberheim ECOs were very handy when I was restoring my OB-X.
Tape quality definitely matters and unfortunately most factory cassettes were recorded on poor quality tape.
When I worked at Roland, they were really nice to me and provided a high quality Denon cassette player.
However, many of the tapes we stocked wouldn’t load into certain synths using the Denon.
The JP6 was notorious for bad loads, while the JP8 was incredibly forgiving.
Long story short, I recorded my own masters direct from synths into the Denon using high quality tape.
They consistently worked well for years and also worked with my old Nakamichi deck.
I don’t recall all types of tapes I used, but Maxell and Memorex were among some.
I even tried metal tape formulations with good success.
One thing tho: never use Dolby noise reduction on a data tape.
It can remove so much high end, the synth can’t decode it.
On the tape subject. Even back in my Atari ST days, I recorded the tapes or the device itself to the computer and sent the sound file to the synth or drum machine when I needed to backup. Though I still have my working Rat Shack battery mono tape recorder. (Used it in the last month)
Thanks so much for all the information. The diagrams in the manual were exactly what I was thinking of.
I’d really love to give some of these a go, especially the Devo ones. If they could be uploaded somewhere it would be quite fun to try them out.
Hi folks,
Something i have always wondered :-
i had a Yamaha DX21 synth in the mid-1980’s and you could load banks of sounds onto it via cassette (same method as described above). i am sure the DX9 was also the same because it did not feature the ROM Cartridge facility which the DX7 had.
Anyway, dispite very many long attempts at trying to load the new data on, it would NEVER bloody work !! Not even once !! As far as i can remember, if there was a definate point where it crashed/rejected it was during the final few seconds. i did try altering the volume of the cassette player and also on a couple of different players. But still no joy.
So, were the Yamaha synths also notorious for poor data transfers ??
Ta,
Paul
I don’t think any of the Yamaha FM stuff was interchangeable over sysex.
Is that the form of the data on cassettes ?? SysEx ??
Some of those Yamahas did both transfers. Patches could be stored as both sysex via MIDI (digital) and via a cassette interface (analog), with the same cassette configuration as the Source. Not sure all the Yamaha models with the added cassette interface, but was on the DX9 and the DX21/27/100 series. May have been others too. Was big in the 80’s as not many had a computer, but cassettes were affordable and accessible.
Do remember buying those certified C-10 cassette tapes to store my patches/sequences. They were pricey, but guaranteed not to have any drop outs that could cause data errors.
Thanks CZ,
So you mean the C-10 (or even C-5) were much better for making such data transfers ?? Do you think that (because i may have not used these length of cassette) that this could have been the reason why none of my data transfers were successful ?? i also remember the VOLUME had to be set in an annoyingly exact position !!
Ta,
Paul
Those special C-10’s were sold by Radio Shack, and they carried that special cable too. They were not sold as standard audio tape, but as computer memory tape. The size of C-10 with 5 minutes per side was probably more for convience than anything. I only had the one, but the Source data could not have been more than 40 seconds or so. Might be difficult to locate the patches you wanted on a longer tape? I don’t think I ever filled the one side and saved a few patches/sequences. They had a C-20 but it cost twice as much.
I never had an error on the Source. After you recorded, you could rewind and then do a “verify”, that re-read the data to make sure it matched what was written into the RAM. I guess the special tape could have helped. Running the recorder on batteries to eliminate any line interference was usually needed though.
I did download the audio for the factory Korg EX-800. It took several tries at different volumes to get it to load. PITA, but it worked.
Thanks CZ,
i think i may have had the cassette playes(s) plugged into the mains power.
The DX21 took about 5 x mins to load the data and as i say, it bloody crashed in the final few seconds !!
Ta,
Paul
Yup, I bought quite a few of those C-10 data cassettes from Radio Shack. Never had one fail.
not sure if there is any trick to getting the data wav files to load but I’m not yet having any luck. I know some are pickier than others, it took quite a few passes to get sounds into my chroma polaris and a few attempts for the juno 106 as well. so far no love on the Source. I’m trying different volumes to see what that does. I am pretty sure I’ve created the cassette interface cable properly, but since it’s not yet working I guess I can’t confirm that either.
if there are any tips for getting a data file to load sounds onto a source I’d like to know. I’m just playing the wav file out of the computer through the cassette adapter cable into the source.