Does anyone with hands on experience have a preference for the sound of the Sub over the Sub 37? I was surprised to hear someone say this, wondering if any others have a similar point of view, and if so why.
I have both, they both sound great. 37 can be more complex because of additional features, sub is great for simple live shows or to play on top of a latched arping 37. sub is easier to carry. sonically both are butter
typo
Do you feel that the Sub 37 can precisely mimic the Sub if the feedback knob on the Sub 37 is set to zero?
Yes, you can make them sound identical. I have both 
I also have both. The Sub 37 can sound identical to the Sub P. But not necessarily the other way around due to the extra functions in the 37.
Appreciate the replies.
I am quite happy with my Sub, and I have a number of sounds I would need to recreate if I upgrade to the Sub37. The extended feature set and knob per function setup will be nice to have, not to mention an increased range of tones with the feedback parameter.
this has been covered in exactly the same topic thread here:
Thanks.
Now all I have to ponder is if its better to spend the $600 difference on a Sub to Sub 37 upgrade, or pickup a Mother-32.
My primary dilemma is how much the Sub37 feedback circuit adds to overall tone of the Sub37. I have a fairly complex semi-modular environment (Voyager RME with I/O, MS20M, MoogerFoogers, some Eurorack etc.) so I can accomplish many (not all) of the modulation patches you could do with a Sub37 on a Sub via CV. Thus the primary advantages of the Sub37 for me are the feedback circuit and possibly the sequencer, and of course the knob per parameter interface.
The Mother-32 on the other hand…so many possibilities in my setup. The rack is also pretty sweet in terms of desktop real estate if you combine with Eurorack.
You can achieve feedback on the Sub Phatty by taking the phones OUT to the Ext IN then use the Ext Mix knob to add feedback. I do it all the time with my SubP
Yes you can. But is the signal path identical to the internal feedback routing on the Sub37? Secondly the feedback circuit may have additional electronics that shape the sound so that the end result differs from a pure feedback loop.
Anyone with a Sub37 willing to compare external feedback patching via the headphone jack versus using the feedback knob to confirm?
Also there are grounding issues on the Voyager when attempting to setup a feedback loop via the headphone jack. You have to use a special Y-cable assembly via the audio insert jacks to be on the safe side. I assume the Sub Phatty would have a similar issue, but lacks the filter insert jacks.
Is the signal path identical? I don’t know.
Can you get them to sound the same? Yes you can.
Do you need a special cable? No you do not, any mono 1/4" cable will do.
Are there ground problems this way? I haven’t had any.
If all you’re after is feedback, I’d say save your money.
I just tried with my 37 and the headphone jack did sound different - I really could not imagine spending the $600 or so difference just for that though - you could presumably take a y-cable off the main output probably and it would be the same as the signal flow in the 37… I sold my SubPhatty to buy a 37 for it’s sequencer, second mod bus, duo mode, extra hands on control, larger patch storage… IMO, those are the functions to consider spending the money for if you need them, not wether or not the feedback is hard wired.
I’ve just tried feedback via headphones to audio in and it’s definitely different - I can’t get it to sound the same via the headphones as it does with the internal feedback.
With the headphones level above 6, it starts to oscillate in the audible range when the external in is increased. Not the same, but definitely an interesting addition to patch creation.
I’ve attached grabs from a soft-oscilloscope. The external are with headphone level set to 5 and external in set to 8 and then headphones set to 7 and external set to 7.
Internal feedback can be played as a sound source too.
Attached is a pic of the waveform at max LFO RATE and max MOD AMT with a sine wave modulator:
OSC 1 / OSC 2 / SUB /NOISE = OFF
PGM Source = SINE LFO
PGM Dest = EXFB LEV
LFO KBTRACK = 100%
LFO HI RANGE = ON
FDBK/EXT IN = ON
Once again, appreciate the replies, especially the waveform comparisons.
I finally got the chance to demo a Sub37 head to head with a Sub Phatty. I had a similar results to paul_sub37.
At mid to high headphone levels I experienced self oscillation on the Sub Phatty. At less extreme settings with a variety of external input and headphone volumes the sound would get thinner and more resonant when more feedback was applied. For bass sounds I found that I preferred using feedback to add moderate levels of resonance (instead of the resonance knob) because you retain much more of the lower frequencies while still getting the resonant filter effect on a plucky envelope. However, if I did use a patch with existing filter resonance, feedback did not thicken the sound, instead it would slightly thin it until oscillation occurred which can be used to add presence.
In contrast the Sub37 feedback thickened just about anything I put through it, rather then simply adding resonance or distortion. This was especially useful as a ‘trick’ to bring back the low end on high resonance plucky bass patches which cannot be done in any other way that I can think of on a Sub Phatty. Additionally, the overall impact of the feedback knob at various settings on the Sub37 felt more musically useful to my ears…which I had always suspected whenever I would hear Sub37 videos with various combinations of Multidrive/Feedback. At this point I see the feedback feature as a key component of why the Sub37 can provide a wider array of timbres over the Sub Phatty. Add in all of the other features and its a real beast of a synth.
On a side note, the fit and finish of the Sub37 was very different from any other Moog product I own or have tested. From the wood panels, to the knobs, to the surface of the knob board…it almost felt like it was manufactured by a different company. I wonder if the Mother-32 is similar.
I assume from your ‘any other moog product..’ you are implying the Sub 37 feels somehow less well built? I’ve never had another moog product so I can’t say, but it doesn’t look that different from the Sub Phatty build wise (only the sub 37 is a hell of a lot nicer and more substantial LOOKING at least). I think it feels great to use and touch, keybed isn’t the best in the world though.. they had to fit a lot into the 37 spec wise so I guess they did their best elsewhere to bring it in at the cost they needed?
I’m sure it’s not a Voyager in the build stakes but is it really so ‘bad’ vs a Sub Phatty? I think the mother 32 probably would be quite similar to 37 in this respect as a company changes suppliers and tooling etc.