Sub Phatty post-release firmware v1.2.1

The Moog Forum Subsequent 37 & Subsequent 25
1

Hello all,

I have created a firmware update for the Sub Phatty, in order to clean up a few little items that were not ready in time for the initial release.

Before I put this update into production, I’d be grateful if one or two Sub Phatty owners could try it out and give me their feedback.

http://www.moogconnect.net/downloads/phatty/SubPhatty_v178_1_2_1.syx
http://www.moogconnect.net/downloads/phatty/SubPhatty_FW_Update_READ-ME.txt

new Shift Mode controls:
http://www.moogconnect.net/downloads/phatty/SubPhatty_infographic_v1_1_4.pdf


Here is a list of changes since firmware v1.0:

  • Responds to MIDI KB Octave CC (CC# 89)

  • EG Decay Speed per envelope, is now Filter EG Decay Speed and Amp EG Decay Speed.

  • fixed a number of bugs related to Active Panel mode.

  • In Shift mode, Amp EG Attack knob always controls Attack unless EG is looping
    (doesn’t adjust Delay unless Delay is active, which only happens when Amp EG Repeat is on)

  • Also in Shift Mode, the scaling of the Delay and Hold parameters is now correct.

  • Changed rootnote for all “kb amount” (key tracking) type params to 60 (was 48, manual says 60)

  • Added handling of SUSTAIN_PEDAL, LEGATO_PEDAL (MIDI CC# 64, 68)

  • CC95 assigned to Decay Speed parameter

  • “Gate Reset” parameters now trigger correctly in Local Off mode

  • wider center detent on Fine Tune knob

  • parameter smoothing applied to Filter Cutoff MIDI CC, and MIDI Chanel Pressure controls, for smooth, step-free filter automation.

  • fixed integer truncation error in “velocity to eg time” parameters (was clipped to 4 values before!) also re-scaled maximum to 10x

  • Filter KB Amount no longer interacts with Fine Tune.

  • Panic / All Notes Off by pressing Keyboard Octave Up + Octave Down buttons at same time

  • default knob mode really is Relative mode now (was Snap)

Thanks for taking the time to check it out!

-Amos

2

Greetings & salutations, Amos! I have yet to receive mine/mi first Moog (Yours & Marc Doty’s videos sold it), but did I miss something? What does Delay and Hold mean? Is there a delay module in the signal path? At any rate, thanks for Your time and efforts, can’t wait to move air with this beastly muchine.

3

Wow!!! Any way to get that into the little phatty code? I’d give up tuning tables in a heart beat.

4

hi guys!

Sir Nose, I probably can’t do parameter smoothing in the Little Phatty; it uses a very different processor than the Sub Phatty.
I’ll keep it in mind as something to try, just in case there’s a way :slight_smile:

ZYKLIFF: “Delay” is not an audio delay; on the Sub Phatty this parameter defines a delay between the start of a note and the start of the Attack phase of an envelope.
Hold sets an amount of time that the envelope stays at its maximum level before beginning the Decay phase.
You can use a little bit of Hold time to get extra punch in the attack of short percussive sounds, for example.

5

HI Amos,

I am willing to test the firmware, however the link doesn’t work:p

6

It worked for me, just now… perhaps control-click or right-click and save link as?

7

Hi Amos,

I downloaded the new firmware, no problem.
The firmware update loaded on the Sub Phatty. I used the SysEx Librarian on my Mac, OSX 10.8.3.
I haven’t spent much time trying out the changes yet. It’s working, sounds great!

Scott

8

Hi Amos,

I just did the upgraded but it has bugged my Sub Phatty in Ableton with record button triggered on, it sounds every knobs i tweak sound step by step rather than full smooth when the record button is off.

Would you please put the v1.0.0 firmware somewhere online so I can flash back the firmware?

9

If I change the midi in channel of the Sub Phatty to channel 2, it fixed the problem. Seems like this bug only affecting channel 1. Hope this gives you some direction on where is bug is.

10

Sorry, it affects every midi in channels.

11

Sorry for another post, now I can confirm that this bug happens when Local Control is on. When LC is off, Sub Phatty sounds fine with record button is engaged. But it sounds messed up when LC is on, record button is engaged, monitoring set to auto or in.

12

Hi, this is not a bug! You have discovered the reason that the Local Control setting exists.

Basically, when Live (or any DAW) is set up this way, it “echoes” the MIDI it receives from the synth, back out to the same synth. If Local Control is turned on, this creates a problem, because the synth is responding directly to your knob-turnings, and then it’s also getting MIDI echoed back from from the DAW which represents the same knob-turning action, only slightly later in time. This creates a glitchy sound as the two sets of instructions (Local and MIDI) fight with each other.

Sorry if this sounds confusing, but the short story is that if you are working in the way you describe, you should leave MIDI Monitoring in Live set to IN or AUTO, and leave Local Control turned OFF on the synth. That’s what the Local Control setting is there for.

Try that and let me know if everything works OK for you. Cheers, and thanks for the feedback!

_Amos

13

Hi!

Thank yiu for the quick reply. Yes, with Local Control Off, everything is back to normal. But how come it didn’t act that way with the stock firmware? It didn’t creat this glitchy sound with Local Control on..

Other than this Local Control thing, I have noticed that when I activate the activate panel mode, it doesnt sound as where the knobs currently are (like it describes in the manual). For example, if I switch to active panel mode from a preset with Mod wheel parameter all the way up (but the actually mod wheel is all the way down), when I play a sound, the mod parameter setting from the preset is carried over to the active panel mode.

Hope I have described it clear enough:)

I will test it again when I get home.

14

This is the default behavior, but you can change it. See p. 35 in the manual under “Use Preset Mod Wheel.”

15

it’s true that the default behavior is to reload the saved mod wheel value…
however, I think it is logical to always use the real mod wheel position when switching to “Panel Active” mode.
I’ll make this change…

16

Cool, thanks for the change : )

17

Hi Amos,

Sorry for the long read but I have just did a further testing with this firmware, I still find it very weird.

Problem 1)
With Local Control off, when I switch to “Panel Activate” from a preset, every parameters from the preset are carried over to the “Panel Activate” mode. Which makes “Panel Activate” mode useless.
If Local Control is on, no such problem.

The only work around right now is, turn Local Control On, make it reads the current knobs positions, then turn it off again.
However, I have noticed a lot of wacky behaviours in Ableton using Local Control off mode(especially with automation when there are multiple clips in a single track.) Right now, It is not an ideal mode to use with DAW at the moment.

Problem 2)
Here is a video that I happened to record when I just got my Sub Phatty. Local Control On, playing from a midi clip, tweaked knobs with no wacky behaviours at all. Perfect perfect synth, perfect workflow for DAW.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o231ul9jX5g

Here is a video of my Sub Phatty after firmware v1.1.0, Local Control On. Clean midi track, I held a key on my Sub Phatty, tweaked the knobs. like a sick cat..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Uvri1y1x1k
(so far, those wacky behaviours only happens to Cutoff & EG amount, all other knobs sounded smooth. However, more to be confirmed when I have more time to test it out.)

Problem 3) (extension to problem 2)

Basically, when Live (or any DAW) is set up this way, it “echoes” the MIDI it receives from the synth, back out to the same synth. If Local Control is turned on, this creates a problem, because the synth is responding directly to your knob-turnings, and then it’s also getting MIDI echoed back from from the DAW which represents the same knob-turning action, only slightly later in time. This creates a glitchy sound as the two sets of instructions (Local and MIDI) fight with each other.

This theory is absolutely correct. However, with the stock firmware, it will only make glitchy sounds if I 1) already have automation done in Ableton & 2) tweak the knobs on Sub Phatty of the same parameter that I have automation done in Ableton, because they are fighting against each other.

With the new firmware, it makes glitchy sounds even in a clean midi track. Definitely something wrong here…

A little wishful request:
In the mean time, Is it possible to post stock firmware online so I can switch it back to the stock firmware before v1.1.0 is ready? I want my Phatty back to normal so I can work with DAW :frowning:

Anyways, thanks for all the hard works!

18

This is a bug! Thank you for catching it; I will fix.
As for the remaining problems, I see now how to fix them. I will have a new update for you soon, which should be much better.

Until then, try this v1.0.4 version… it has no “sick cat” sounds…

http://www.moogconnect.net/downloads/phatty/SubPhatty_v147_1_0_4.syx

thank you very much for the testing and feedback!

19

Until then, try this v1.0.4 version… it has no “sick cat” sounds…

http://www.moogconnect.net/downloads/phatty/SubPhatty_v147_1_0_4.syx

thank > you > very much for the testing and feedback!

Thanks Amos. I have just updated to v1.0.4, seems like fine now. I will keep testing it.

20

I am experiencing a rather odd issue with the release firmware. Using the low C key for turning Local Control ‘off’ is not actually turning it off. I’ve tested this with MIDI connected and not and the sound engine of the Sub Phatty is still being triggered despite having turned ‘off’ Local Control.

Has anyone else experienced this? I did find it odd that the low C key triggers Local Control ‘off’ rather than ‘on’ - thinking perhaps this error in the updated manual, but I tried low C# key as well and to no avail.