Sub Phatty (frustrating) MIDI issue

The Moog Forum Subsequent 37 & Subsequent 25
1

Hi everyone!

first time poster, thanks to every contributor to this forum.

I bought a new sub phatty about one year ago. love it, gret sound, great controls, but i still have problems with midi connections, especially when midi signal comes from the computer.

Say i want the subphatty to play a midi track from a DAW (i use Reaper and Ableton - both have different problems). i have the SP connected via USB. I am using the ACTIVATE PANEL mode (not using a preset).Then i let the midi track play and will eventually encounter some problem…
the problems i encounter are different and apparently they occur randomly:

  • filter cutoff works weirdly: with the filter totally closed i still have sound
  • a strange LFO at the same speed of the song (1/4 note) - only in reaper
  • the SUSTAIN/DECAY of the amplifier will start to work strangely: like i set the decay at maximum level, the sustain at zero and i have no sound no matter how long the decay is; to get a sound i have to turn the sustain knob up.
  • the SP always plays as if there is some kind of hold function activated. at this point the SP will keep holing notes like forever even if the midi track stops. i have to turn it off and initialize its configuration (it was useful to memorize a couple of hidden functions eheheh); this is the most annoying issue and i get this only in Ableton.

*all these problems will continue happening even when i am not sending any midi signal to the SP. even if i unplug the usb cable. to return to a normal behaviour i gotta turn it off, turn it on and sometimes even reinitialize factory settings.

to me one of the strangest things is that if i use a preset i will not have these issues, or al least not all of them (i can check).

Maybe i can check if connecting via DIN (midi cable) i have the same problems… right now my studio is configured with the SP kinda far from the interface and i don’t have a long enough midi cable. i can check if it changes anything, but the strange problem remain… i mean it should work via usb connection right?

i have tried all differents configurations i could think of, both with the SP and with the DAWs, no luck so far and it is frustrating!

thanks a lot!

Tyto


P.S. i should mention i am on Mac, working with a Macbook Pro from 2 years ago, OSX 10.14 and i have upgraded the SP to the latest firmware (2.20)

EDIT: i just found out that the note holding thing in Ableton occurs even with presents. as soon as the midi track triggers the synth the PATCH button light will somehow dim a little bit and then if i push it again and hit any key the SP will no longer hold notes as long as the midi track isn’t retriggered (f. ex. if i’m recording in loop).

2

To get a sound if you close the filter completely with the cutoff knob is nothing special. As the cutoff is most likely modulated by the filter envelope. Only if the filter envelope amount is zero and no other modulation like aftertouch, velocity and so one are also zero, you get only a very low level and near sinus sound off the filter.

Have you checked for a MIDI loop? This happens when the Sub Phatty or any other synth is controlled on the frontplate and the knob movement is sent to a DAW and from the DAW back into the very same synth. You need to have to set Little Phatty to the local-off mode in order to sent the knobs to the DAW and back into the Sub Phatty without the Sub Phatty reacting to the MIDI data it receives and the physical knob movement at the same time. This causes strange things to happen, depending on the timing of the data sent and received.

And often there are some MIDI controller messages sent from the DAW you are not aware of causing problems. So be sure to start from an empty project.

Here a chapter fro the Sub Phatty manual page #34:

LOCAL CONTROL
Sometimes it’s useful to disable the keyboard when you’re using it as a MIDI controller for other instruments or when you’re recording tracks into a DAW. With Local Control turned on, you can use the keyboard and the front-panel controls to play and program the Sub Phatty. With Local Control turned off, any keys you press or control settings you change send data directly to the instrument’s MIDI Out or USB, without affecting the Sub Phatty.
To turn Local Control off, engage Shift mode, press BANK 2, BANK 4, and PATCH 1, and then press the low C key.
To turn Local Control back on, engage Shift mode, press BANK 2, BANK 4, and PATCH 1, and then press the low C# key.
3

hi till, thanks a lot for the reply!

yeah i wasn’t having any envelope on the filter and expecting the sound to be close to zero when i close it. somehow the DAW is changing that… (wasn’t using a patch)

i think you’re right and i might have some kind of midi loop. i tried to start from a fresh project as you said and i still have same problems (which i don’t have with other synths…).

tunrning Local control off didn’t help either and also would be pointless in my case because i want to be able to change parameters in the front panel as the MIDI track is playing thru the synth. basically i would like to be able to just send midi notes to the SubPhatty and record while changing parameters in the front panel.

i think i need to further investigate MIDI loops and try to understand where the loop is occuring…

thanks again