Just had a thought: Charlie if you’re using a Soundcraft mixer anyway, try inserting the Zverb into a send/return & see if that works any better for you?
Might actually be more versatile, as you can feed anything else into it & control each channel with the mixer sends
allright here ya go…I started out messing with the ladder filter, then moved to tweaking the verb settings
https://soundcloud.com/user-200002765/zverb-5u
if this repetitive sequence doesn’t do your head in after 11 minutes, I will be impressed. 
What you have coming out sounds much better than where I’m at currently! The Z-Verb sounds great in that clip, thanks for creating it. I can barely get close to anything resembling a “drip” and my volume drops out and the sound gets too wet too soon. Are you running out of the modular direct into the z-Verb then into your mixer/interface or using an insert?
Latest test: I just ran an insert and I’m having the same kind of issue, as soon as I start to raise the Zverbs mix I lose a ton of volume and I’m getting more of a dull plate sound, not a springy drip. i’ll continue to mess around.
Thanks again everyone =)
Hmm that is strange!
My signal: Oakley 1-of-3 oscillator–>Oakley ladder filter–>STG mixer–>Zverb—>DAW
(I am still working on my VCA builds so no VCA’s 
)
The reverb definitely responds better to treble sounds: if I roll the filter off the reverb almost disappears. The most dramatic sounds had some resonance & the CV from the envelopes affecting the filter.
Start with all the reverb knobs at noon, and set your volume based on that? Also start with your modular output fairly low, like 9am on your CP3? Then sweep that up to around noon, that range should give you useable input levels for the Zverb
As mentioned, if I drop the “mix” knob on the Zverb below 9am it gets REALLY loud…too loud, really, and dry sounding. Also the “tone” knob needs to be above 9am to keep the treble freqs, and if the ladder filter has no high end the reverb isn’t as noticeable
If you have a gtr & an amp, try using the Zverb as it was designed, to make sure it works ok? You may even have a funky tube
Modular signal levels ( and impedence? ) are very different from electric gtr. So that probably has an effect
No guitars or amps but I will try the Zverb with a few different keyboards and go directly into the amp.
I’ve never had any major issues running any of my keyboards into effects pedals save running a Voyagers and a Mellotron into a few Catalinbread pedals. The pedals sounded amazing, but they just couldn’t handle line level, I had to run them so low I’d never be able to rehearse with them. I ended up getting a few Meris pedals that accept line level and that did the trick. I have a few Strymon pedals that also accept line level and have no issues. I’m just trying to get away from digital emulations when it comes to this modular. That’s why I’m hoping the re-amp box might still be the answer, I just have to learn how to use it, or get a dedicated mixes just for the Model 10 and its effects.
Thanks again for all the help =)
Welcome, hope you get it sorted out!
The send of the Radial is -14db to +3 with 0db being 12 o’clock. I’m leaving the send around 9 o’clock so its probably around -10db going into the Z-Verb, still messing around with other settings on the device. It’s starting to sound pretty good (and even with the Model 10’s mixers maxed). Backing off the mixers creates a much cleaner spring reverb (as per your advice and as your sound clip). Good times!
Hi Eric, you mentioned the Vermona VSR 3 (I’m taking a look at that as well as their ReTubeVerb), any thoughts on it?
I’m also looking at the Demeter RV-1D. If anyone here has used the Vermona or Demeter reverbs, i’d love to hear about it.
Thanks!
Hi Charlie-
I have the same Radial Reamp that I use for my MF-105 phaser fed from my mixer effects send at 4dB. Everything you describe makes sense and the Reamp should do exactly what you want. What is the signal strength/ range of the System 10 output?
Doesn’t make sense and I am perplexed.
Hi Markyboard,
I’m learning as I go here so bear with me!
First to answer your question “What is the signal strength/range of the system 10 output.”
I don’t know/understand yet. I’m trying to learn how to measure that, as well as figure all this other stuff out! =)
As per the Model 10 manual addendum regarding the mixer section:
Output impedance: 100 ohms
Gain: x2 at maximum output level setting.
I believe this only relates to the mixer and doesn’t consider modules before or after it in the signal chain. I am using the mixer as an audio mixer and going from that out of the synth via a trunk line (pass through).
What I do know so far:
My Soundcraft EPM 12 mixer line in can handle +30db. I have no issue at any signal/volume level going directly from the Model 10 to this mixer. I think its safe to say that I am under the +30db level. (which I a lot!)
When I introduce the Radial EXTC-SA inline between the Model 10 and the mixer I get all sorts of cracks/pops/distortion. The EXTC’s input can handle up to +11db so I am over that number for sure.
Examples when using the Radial:
If I have the Model 10’s 4 channels at 10, anything above 3 on the master mixer creates problems.
If I have the Model 10’s 4 channels at 5 and the master at 5, raising anything higher creates the same problems.
As per my conversation with Radial tech support:
“Modular synthesizers such as the Model 10 generally operate at a modular level output level, which is nominally around 5V. Modular signal level is a usually a higher signal level than that of Professional +4dB line level signals, which usually operate nominally at around 3V peak to peak. The reason you could be experiencing this pop noise is due to the inputs of the EXTC-SA being overloaded by the excess amounts of signal level, which then causes distortion to occur in the form of popping.” also “the popping could simply be due to transients from the synth that overload the input briefly, which then causes the popping to occur.”
I just picked up a Radial SAT-2 attenuator which should do the trick. It has a maximum input of +26db, its passive, transparent, and has a dim function (insert joke here) so I can run regular and loud patches and just hit a button.
I’m still messing around with just 1 or 2 components but I’m going to be hooking up the Zr. Z. spring reverb and try adding my Teac reel to reel to the mix via the EXTC.
Sorry for the long post but that’s where I’m at.
Hey Charlie- I love this topic as I’m always investigating these signal characteristics of all kinds of equipment. And I too am always learning something new.
“When I introduce the Radial EXTC-SA inline between the Model 10 and the mixer I get all sorts of cracks/pops/distortion”
To clarify you’ve taken the DrZ reverb out of the picture here and you’re connecting the SEND output of the EXTC-SA to an input channel of the Soundcraft mixer? Or are you connecting the main XLR output of the EXTC to an input channel?
“The EXTC’s input can handle up to +11db so I am over that number for sure.
Where did you get this from? Per the spec the input can handle max of 26dBu.
Yeah me too, never to late to learn =)
The Dr. Z. is not in the signal chain at all. I am not using any sends or returns, just plugging the model 10 into the EXTC’s input and plugging the EXTC’s output into my mixer. Both cables are 1/4" unbalanced. I’m just passing audio through the unit, not using either of its effects loops. The power coming from the wall is fine and I even swapped cables a few times to make sure I didn’t have a bum cable. (note to self, buy cable tester! =) I think that covers all bases!
The +11db number is under the specifications tab of the EXTC on their website, also one of their techs mentioned the same thing in an email. “the EXTC’s maximum input level sits at around +11dBu”.
I’m not sure why the user guide says maximum input +26dbu dry, +20dbu wet. Shouldn’t max input be listed under the line level I/O section?
I’m trying by best to understand all of this lol, my band thinks I’m nuts, “Just use the guitar pedals” they say, but what fun would that be? Besides, when they hear the real thing they say “Oh wow that sounds so much better”.
ARGGGGG! Ok, I’m going on a mild rant here but I also think I have the answer to your issue.
Reading manufacturers specs is always an adventure, and more often than not just total BS. Why? Because they often specify numbers to look good ( better than the competition) and offer little explanation as to what they mean. This is especially true in the Hi- FI world but these days even so called “pro” equipment does this.
Take input level for example. Even Radial can’t keep it straight between their user manual and their web page. 26dB? 11dB? At what gain setting? They don’t say. The send knob varies the gain between -3dB and 14dB. So at -3dB you can apply a 26 dB signal. At max gain of 14dB you an only apply 11dB ( 14+11) . The numbers don’t work out exact but there are other variables and limits at play. The max input also depends on the receive and blend settings, so you can see where this gets really confusing. I wish they would standardize how they spec these numbers. But oh well, you just have to understand how this stuff works. Rant over.
The EXTC is a reamp for effects pedals and such. The “reamping” takes place in the effects loop. The Input and output are both at +4dBu so that’s not doing anything just using those. To bring that monstrous signal level down to wimpy guitar levels 
connect the send to your DrZ or even your audio mixer so you can see what it’s doing. Then use the send knob to adjust level accordingly.
The XLR output is used to bring the effect blended with the dry
input back to your audio mixer at 4dBu. But you shouldn’t need this with the DrZ.
Btw I also have the Radial X-amp which is a more conventional re-amper device . It has just an input and 2 outputs reflecting the reduced signal level. This is where the confusion may have come from.
Hope that helps.
Edit: One more btw- the Sys 10 output may still be too much in which case you’ll have to reduce its output.into the EXTC.
Charlie, are you still trying to keep the model 10 output at full volume?
I think most gear would have a tough time with that. If you just drop it down you probably don’t need any of that other stuff.
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I was beginning to think it was just me that found some of these things odd/confusing! Thanks for the explanation. I thank you and the others more electronically savvy than me for the help!
No, this was just for the patch I had going when I first started adding other equipment into the chain, I realize I’m pushing stuff beyond it’s limits, in fact I’m glad it all happened the way it did because now I’m learning about my equipment in a more detailed way. I don’t plan on going near max volume too often!
Agreed!
Anxiously awaiting to hear the results of using the send output of the EXTC.
I’m sorry I must have missed the question!! Did you want me to use the send out as a main out of the unit into the mixer or just use the send out into the spring reverb as is intended?
Apologies for not being clear. You must use the effect send out of the EXTC Reamp in order to attenuate (reduce) the signal level at its input. This is intended to be connected to the input of an effects pedal or in your case the DrZ Reverb unit.
You may want to read the paragraph after my “rant” in my long reply.
Yes, I know that much. =) The effects loops are working great for me now, Thanks! I just have to learn how much signal the Z-Verb likes, when push it, and when to dial it back.
Exceeding the EXTC’s max input was my main problem, the SAT2 fixed that.
In other news, the Gamechanger Audio Light Pedal should be arriving soon, cant wait to a/b that with the Dr. Z.!