Should Roland and Korg get back in the analog market?

The Moog Forum Moog Music General Topics Forum
21

The V-Piano is an amazing synth, but way too expensive. I never understand buying something like a Fantom that you can just download a clone of, and spend the money on nice fat analog sounds. Analog modelers make sound that emulate analog, so obviously they are saying " we sound as close to the real thing while still being fake" but VA sounds nothing like analog, unless you run it through analog, like a tape delay or something. I too perused youtube for V-synth videos, and everything sounded cold, sterile, and fake. I wonder what that digital synth Moog worked on would of sounded like, and what a modern version would sound like, because maybe one day digital will sound as good as analog.

Somebody please post a link of a digital synth (besides the V-piano or the new B-3) from any era that sounds as good as a Voyager and I will bow down to digital.

22

Roland and Korg both have some really good analog emulation going on. People are still buying Rhodes used or going with a Nord for electric piano emulation. Not necessary to fake a Rhodes before you can go back into an analog synth, so I’m not really following how an effective Rhodes emulator has much to do with bringing back a true analog synth. Korg had some good analogs but they’re much more of a player on the digital front than they ever were on the analog area. Roland had much more analog synth stuff, with the sh series and then the jupiter and juno series although they did implement DCO’s and eventually VA technology.

23

Im not an Analog purist. I love it, and Ill choose it over digital any day, but comparing the two really isn’t productive.

I submit that few can really tell the difference between analog and digital. Saying this I know a lot of you may disagree, but outside of this forum and a few others where we are all concentrated, I seriously doubt that a large percentage of the general public actually can tell the difference between a waveform that is generated by a digital machine or an analogue one.

Its kind of like a mistake that is buried in one of our songs…it might be extremely apparent to us, but not everyone will notice.

I have recorded with a V-Synth and it will put out some extremely deep and punishing bass rivaling that of the MicroMoog.

Let me digress slightly. A lot of the good folks here are clamoring for an Analog Polysynth from Moog. They want it to be small and relatively inexpensive. This type of request is coming from people who want to gig with it, who don’t want to carry around a huge behemoth, and whose studios are already crammed with enough stuff to make the meter maid really happy to come around.

Where else can you get a single unit that will do Pianos, strings horns, Synth, FX, Clavis, and generally everything else? Digital does it and digiital only. It has its place, maybe not in your style of music or in your studio, but its a very practical solution for our sometimes impractical ambitions (like secretly wishing for 25 fully functional, vintage keyboards, synths and electric pianos of all types).

It is because of this that a major movement by the leaders in the digital industry are NOT going to return to analogue. The prevalance of VA and the oh so popular “Downloadable clones” keep our analog market a small one in comparison. Im preaching to the choir now I know, but the very nature of Analog doesn’t lend itself to the millions of amateur musicians that are up and coming and on tight budgets.

I really would rather see things continue as they are now. Do you really want Roland to return to Analog?

I think that its perfect as it is. With a few companies pumping out fantastic instruments in batches of dozens, rather than a McDonald analog synth company pumping out crap products with poor customer service. If Roland Yamaha and Korg did this, Do you think Roger Arrick, or Tom Oberheim or even Moog would be able to compete with that?

Do you really want to see everyone having access to analog synths? Companies might but if all of the guitar players in the world traded their Strats for Moog’s, what would be so special about OUR sound? Everyone and their grandmother would have an Analogue synth and then everyone would get tired of it and dump them in pawnshops.


With my Art I try to draw from every possible source I can. If its digital or analog or software, in the end it is about expressing yourself and the means with which you choose to do so. I peronally wouldn’t reject one over the other if it serves its function like the other one can’t. If you want the taste for Beef, you don’t buy Lamb, though they will both fill your gullet just as well.

E

24

^ That’s actually a pretty fair comment.

25

I think Roland took a hit from Yamaha when Yamaha introduced the DX7. The writing was on the wall for analogues when FM synthesis, sampling technology and digital technology began to show its immense versatility, and Roland was already putting DCO’s and other digital technology with their analogues. And don’t forget that it’s not just the people on a budget. Every well known keyboardist has something digital in the setup, with very few exceptions. Analog has a place but so does digital. I like the DSI concept of the poly evolver utilizing both. I see the possibility of both Korg and Roland utilizing analog technology in the future, although most of the eggs are in the digital basket.

A move completely back to analog would be like a builder of skyscrapers going back and building circus tents.

26

You may have gone a bit over the top there Erik :slight_smile: Everyone should have access to analog technology if they want it. The limiting factor is “Do people really want to pay the price of a Voyager for a mono synth”? That’s where Moog purchasers are separated from the crowd. And its a good question if you compare analog with REAL digital synths. Forget the big three Roland, Kord and Yamaha, these often have sloppy sounds from don’t care programmers. The V-Synth could be great, but modulate anything with low audio frequencies and the cracks become apparent - its stepping in an ugly way instead of smoothly modulating. And hopelessly lame envolopes too. There’s either zero decay or the next slope is too long witho nothing inbetween (whereas the Moog envelopes have near infinite control). Same with the Korg Radias technologies too.

No, the REAL digital synths are the Accesses, old Nords, things like that. Really great sounds and great filters. If you are going to compare analog to digital, at least compare analog with GOOD digital.

B

27

Why is that over the top?

If everyone had a Voyager…and I mean everyone, who would really want to hear another Voyager patch?
Im not saying that there should be limited access, anyone that wants one can get one now. But I have a tendancy to believe that if analog synths were mass produced, they would probably suffer in the same ways as the Digital synths do. Just crank them out for profit with less regard for hand matched componants and quality assurance.

If Analog synths became as commonplace as everything else, it would deter from their uniqueness.

I guess what it boils down to is similar to when you have a new genre of music that actually means something then get watered down and corporatized and goes from underground avant garde art to exploited mainstream pop.

Tis my opinion.
Edited for clarification.

28

I think Eric’s comment was a tad over the top. If everyone had a voyager, imagine the near infinite bank of patches we could share, with new and exciting sounds coming from the same instrument. I dare say no one has even scratched the surface of what a voyager can do, unless one devotes hours a day for years. The mod capabilities are vast, especially when you add foogers and outboard gear. That said, the analog vs. digital is a pointless debate, but my point is that almost all digital sounds can be downloaded and played with a cheap midi controller. And I dare say very few of them will sound as good as a Moog. If you have any posts to the contrary, please post because i cant find a single digital patch that sounds as good as my voyager. As far as Korg, Yamaha, etc., fuk 'em all, they are huge evil corporations with subpar products that sound like they all came from the early 80’s digital revolution. That’s why we all love Moog, DSI, and Tom Oberheim, they make products that are reasonably priced and sound quasi to fully-orgasmic.

29

Eric made some good points. I agree with a lot of it.

I just remember a time when I wished Moog would re-release the minimoog. Not only did they, but they made it better than I could have imagined.

I would love a true, analog, modern Jupiter-8.

Screw Korg, I don’t really care if they go analog again.

And a big thank you to Moog for kicking so much ass.

30

I believe all players should be entitled to analog.

31

Of course there was a time when only analogue was available anyway - some of us remember a time before the DX7 came out. Somehow all the music didn’t sound the same. Amazing.

32

Maybe for a few years at best….the Voyager is not unlimited.

Thats debatable.




My opinions, which may be unpopular, stem from the fact that this country has ben so guitar obsessed since it was first electrified. And Im pretty sick and tired of seeing these new bands come on Letterman or Conan, and there are too many guitars on stage. THe lead singer has one, with two rhythm guitarist and a bass guitarist, steel guitarist, etc. Little to no innovation anymore.


It gets harder and harder for me to be enthused about new guitar oriented music because it gets harder to do things on it that hasn’t been done before. Unless there is a rare talent that comes a long like Buckethead….everything tends to sound the same to me.

I appreciate the fact that for the most part, synthesizers are an esoteric instrument.

:slight_smile:

33

No, I said not ALL the music sounded the same - SOME of the music may have had a ‘sound’, but to say everyone using analogue synths sounded the same is not debatable.


Don’t forget it has been somewhat different for us Brits, we quite happily embraced the synth revolution in the '80s.

34

I respect Europes appreciation for Electronic Music. THe nationality difference didn’t even occur to me. But your point illustrates mine. In the commercialization of alot of the synthpop that came out during that time, as it drifted away from its original movement, it was the more obscure musicians like TG and people like that who really did wonderful things. The more popular something is, the more commercial it becomes, the crappier it tends to get.

35

I would like to see Korg, Yammie, Roland, etc. go into analogue only if it introduces something new and different sounding or has an interesting user interface. I certainly don’t want to see another remake of classics like an MS20, Jupiter, etc. Otherwise, more digital synths like Roland’s V synth would be good. I would love to see some manufacturer come up with digital synths that are as imaginative as some of the softsynths like some Reaktor synths.

36

Maybe the semi-modular Solaris would fit the bill?

37

Actually with all the modular stuff out there, the voyager is not limited. Even as a stand alone unit the mod capabilities are too vast for one person to fully understand. With filter pole changes, filter spacing, panorama , envelope mods, and basically a software patchbay, the voyager is the only synth one needs. Sounds we never will hear are capable. Then when you add midi and CV, it’s like the voyager could be the only instrument in existence and everyone could have a unique voice. Just like the old Moog modulars, no one, not even the manufacturer can explore every aspect of the instrument. It’s almost too much for me, and the Model D seems just right. The Voyager is a crazy spaceship and the Model D is a beautiful aeroplane.

38

Even though I have the Voyager, I still need my modular to get many of the sounds I want. So the Voyager isn’t close to the end all be all synth. It is still a great machine. As far as Roland and Korg getting back into analog, I don’t see it in the Japanese business model. If they did, I’d like to see the Roland 100M format. With the 110M module it was easy to stack them up as independant voices for polyphony.

39

Hi Everyone,

I find this thread very interesting. Here’s my two cents:

  1. Eric wasn’t over the top - I think he made a lot of sense on many issues. I’d have to go back and re-read it because it was three pages ago, but I recall agreeing with most of it.

  2. The V-Synth XT ROCKS!! For most bass rigs with keys, there is a Voyager and a V-Synth. Best of both worlds.

  3. While I love my XT, I wish the knob response was smoother as well as the parameter stepping. These are valid points. Still, the machine is incredible.

  4. The Fantom X has some great sounds in it. While I’m not as crazy about the new G series, they’re cool. I have a Fantom Xr fully loaded. But, I agree that they’ve recycled a lot of sounds since the JD-990 days (which I also own). That’s why I got the Xr - between that, the XT, and the 990, I have all the ‘best of’ Roland sounds going back to the D-50.

side note: I tried the Gaia, and actually liked it to my surprise. I love the sliders, and I found the knob response to be superior to the V-synth. Not a bad machine for $700! I also liked the Juno Stage - great sounds, weight and action. But I’d probably try to get a used Fantom X7 for the price and gain sampling, pads, and the display…

  1. I love my analog gear; my Moogs, my DSI, and hopefully soon my Oberheim :slight_smile:

  2. The European manufacturers are awesome. I have a bunch of Nord stuff which I love. The Access Virus range is really something too. Waldorf are also really cool. I loved my old Microwave XT, but look forward to a Blofeld someday.

  3. A Motif ES7 is my main gigging board (sometimes I use the S90es). They have great rhodes sounds. Korg did a bunch of great rhodes patches for the M3 v 2.0 upgrade that are at least as good, and are second only to Nord, which I think is the best. Especially with the new rhodes coming out with the v5.0 piano library. Of the big three, Roland are in last place. Also, the Kurzweil PC3 series has some really great vintage keys stuff happening… I’m excited for their PC3k to come out…

Sorry it wound up to be more like two bucks more than two cents… thought I’d throw my hat in!

Hope everyone’s well,

Peter K.

40

Personally, I LIKE the Roland SH-201. Great layout for learning subtractive synthesis and it’s a punchy sounding little synth - affordable and it has more waveforms than a Minimoog. It would be nice to see them make an analog machine, but it’s kind of nice to have digital synths in the collection - I can always record them via microphone setup or warm them up with a tube preamp if I want them to sound more analog. And I believe you can do more with effects and the like with a digital package than a standalone analog. Playing my Roland SH-201 is like having the sound production and moogerfoogers in one keyboard.

Excited to perform on a GAIA actually. Imagine if that thing was analog - it would be massive. That’s an advantage of digital technology.

Nothing beats a Minimoog though. :smiley: