I was looking for an appropriate place to ask a question and after searching around, this here LOUNGE seems very fitting:
If one was going to RECORD a MOOG (which I should have at least made an attempt at ages ago) then what would be some good FX to use with it please? I have CUBASE ARTIST 8 but do not own any 3rd party FX plug-in’s (nor can I really see myself purchasing any to be honest [with me being something of a studio hobby-ist]). I know lots of people use WAVES.
Of course, I could just record either the MINIMOOG or MULTIMOOG as DRY and they would sound ok (well they do to my ears). But I am sure that most RECORDIST’s would add a plethora of FX and what-not to spice up the sound/recording. I have been playing on my MULTIMOOG this weekend thinking about how one might COMPOSE a tune for it which is when I started to wonder how much (or how little) FX might play a part in this.
I have used FX for a few of my YAMAHA DX21 synth demonstrations albeit most of them have been somewhat mainstream (eg. Delay, Reverb, Chorus, etc), though perhaps, sometimes at least, this may be all that is required.
I would be playing the either the MINI or MULTI in isolation and probably not even layering any OVERDUB’s.
Anyway, those are my thought/questions at this point for anyone able to kindly offer any experience in this area. As I say, I am more of a player/arranger/composer (and [now] a not too bad FM synth programmer) but the area of RECORDING is something I do still need to greatly explore.
Hi Paul, what I like to do is record whatever FX get me into the groove I use for the performance on a seperate track(s), then the instruments are recorded dry on their own tracks. Don’t fotget a click and MIDI timing track. Then in the mixdown I can elect to retain the original FX, or recreate them in whatever fashion I like to improve it.
Do you mean that you record a track using some of your favourite FX which inspire you musically (rather than record DRY)? And then once the track is recorded, you then decide whether or not to KEEP the FX on, leave it DRY, or apply DIFFERENT FX to it?
I run my Mini through an Roland RE-101 space echo and it sounds just killer, especially with a single osc triangle wave. Geoffrey Keezer uses this sound alot. In fact one of the presets on the Voyager is named after him This is the only effect I use with the Mini though and it seems sufficient, but there are plenty of others one could experiment with
Paul,
I almost always add a little reverb to enhance a synth’s sound. I choose a reverb I like and record it directly on the track with the instrument. Lots of recording engineers record the dry synth and wet reverb signals to different tracks but I’ve found what works for me is to find the reverb I like and then that combination of reverb and synth becomes the sound of my instrument on that track (I don’t use a computer for recording, if I did I might do things differently). I use two digital muli-effects units for my reverbs but there are sweet analog reverbs out there as well.
I have other hardware effects - delay, ring mod, murf, freqbox, flanger, pitch shifter, phaser, and distortion, but they don’t get used very often in my current style of writing. Usually I’ll be messing around with an effect and if I find something I like, I track it and then design a song around it. Again, for me, it is easier to find an effect I like and add it to the track with the synth when recording, therefore becoming the new sound of that synth. Does that make sense?
When starting out I spent a lot of months researching the best ways to record. I tried to figure out how compression and EQ worked, and I tried to emulate what the pros did. Eventually I decided to just do what sounded good to me. The research is definately beneficial, but don’t get caught up in it all. I’m a hobbyist like yourself, not a professional recording engineer.
Paul, yes I record the synths dry, plus extra tracks for the FX I used for the performance (that I recorded). That way, you can choose to keep the performances FX, or recreate them in a differernt fashion. I recommend recording any timing on seperate tracks to synchronize new FX with the original recorded music if you used delays synch’s to the beat, etc…
I think one should almost always record dry (because then you are not committed to an effect or EQ that one usually finds out later doesn’t really fit into the mix) then use VST’s per track. Your synth will then benefit (when mixing and listening to everything) to reverb, most definitely EQ and oftentimes compression.
Try those plugins I linked you. Some are better than commercial VST plugins.
I very much worry about downloading FREEWARE as I have had to have both my Win7 and Win8 REFORMATTED at least 3 x times each, and so last month I kind of vowed not to INSTALL anything which was not a PAID PURCHASE from a recognised company. This may sound a bit extreme I know, but I can’t deal with taking anymore risks. Plus I just laid out over 200GBP on an INTERNAL SSD.
I have only ever recorded DRY and then I decide if I am to add any FX upon listening to the playback. Personally, from what my ears tell me, if you are performing LEAD LINE stuff on the MULTI, then this can have a tendency to sound a little nasily/reedy in isolation. So I am sure it would benefit from something added.
I use external effects with my synths (Moog, Korg, etc…). Mainly guitar effect pedals, like reverb (EHX Cathedral), delay (Boss DD-7 and EHX DMM), flanger (Boss BF-3), phaser (EHX Small Stone). I have the drawback of not being able to change their levels afterwards (I record them live), but I prefer to hear them as I play for a better feeling, rather then adding them later.
It’s all recorded live, track by track, in Audacity on my Mac Mini using the regular stéréo audio in (but sampled at 96 KHz two channels 32 bits floating in audacity, then brought back to 44 KHz and 16 bits for exporting as a lossless .wav file).
BTW, on a Mac, you need to use the “Audio MIDI Set-up” app (found in utilities directory) to be able to change the default sampling rate input of the Mac from 44K 16 bits to 96K 32 bits floating.
And of course you need to set Audacity (or your favorite DAW) to work with the same resolution internally.
I got pretty lucky and got one for about 115GBP. There is a Plug-in version of it for much less here: http://www.genuinesoundware.com/?a=showproduct&b=26. I did an A/B test of the plug-in vs. the real thing once with my Mini and it was quite close-- i’ll try to dig it up and post.
Well, like yourself, I have external hardware FX including Jim Dunlop Cry Baby Wah Wah, Boss CE-1 Chorus, Boss Auto-Pan, Boss Carbon Copy Delay etc, which I use for my FENDER RHODES and HOHNER CLAVINET (live performances). But as yet, have never hooked them up to the MOOG (nor even hooked up the MOOG to CUBASE).
Ok, I will bear that in mind when I get to that point!
I am on Win7 and Win8 PC using CUBASE ARTIST (which is a scaled down version of CUBASE PRO [as they now call it]).
I would very much like to hear your MINI thru both of the TAPE ECHO versions please?
I think that after a while, on the hardware version, you need to REPLACE the TAPE inside? Not sure how regularly though? There is a guy in London UK who offers a postal service.
Everyone knows that pros use a Mac… (just kidding )
I’ve worked with a PC on Win XP for many years to record my drumming videos and record my synths (using Adobe Audition), without too many problems, until I switched to a Mac about 5 years ago (should have done that earlier).
Since then, smooth sailing all the way…
Well you know the damn issues I have had with PC’s since day one, I wish I had just paid the extra (10 x years ago and gone MAC). I was looking at a MAC PRO BOOK last week but it was 1,999GBP. Plus I am aged 46 now and too long in the tooth to be switching. If I could turn back the clock then I would never have gone down the PC route. But when at college with little funds, Win XP was the only affordable option.
I’ll turn 50 next week, and I switched when I was 45. So, it’s never too late to do the right thing…
But it’s true that Macs are usually somewhat expensive, and that’s why I went for a Mac Mini Unibody (I already had the monitor, USB keyboard, and USB mouse).
Of course I would have liked to get a top-of-the-line iMac instead, but my “finances” didn’t allow it…
To be honest with my current (lack of!) level of computer skills, I simply could not justify making such a purchase. Though as I say, in hindsight, I wish I had started out with MAC 15 x years ago considering the money I have wasted on PC (problems!).
I found a YAMAHA DX21 patch I programmed/recorded last year in CUBASE. I applied DELAY with a certain amount of PRE-DELAY TIME (can’t remember the amount of ms). This is, typically, the kind of thing I am always hearing in my head (it’s only about half a minute long but I am sure you will instantly grasp what you might term as being my bag!):
Such a superb answer here as you offer an insight into your (albeit condensed) whole working procedure! Very inspiring and so thank you.
I have a hardware LEXICON MX200 (model I think it is). It’s the one with MEMORY and LED. I bought it for VOCAL’s (during a duo a contract I was doing with a dodgey/cheesy duo playing in a Spanish hotel in Palma!). Anyway, so you record the INSTRUMENT and REVERB directly together? If an engineer was to, as you say, record a DRY and WET signal in the same PASS, then would the SYNTHESIZER need to have TWO separate OUTPUTS (one going into the FX UNIT then to the MIXER, and the other going straight to the MIXER?)?
Ok, so you noodle around feeding your SYNTH thru various hardware FX. Then, when you have found one you like (ie. it INSPIRES musical ideas, you jam/compose a song/groove around the ambience of the FX. In other words, the FX (unit) is almost a CO-COMPOSER! The result is that the FX is an intrinsic/integral (call it what you will) part of the finished (composite) timbre. That is how I interpret what you are describing.
Great point. I admit to being somewhat overwhelmed by the daunting task of trying to understand EVERYTHING! I have found that in the last 4 x years (basically since I bought CUBASE) I my workflow has been very UNPRODUCTIVE (apart from my growing interest in FM SYNTHESIS). Pre-CUBASE, I would spent months transcribing Chick Corea solo’s and writing out big band compositions etc. But over the past 2/3 x years I have been stuck in something of a musical rut and you just end up getting NOTHING done!
Anyway, study-wise, I have the two books MIXING SECRETS (Mike Senior) and POWER TOOLS OF CUBASE (L. Hepworth). Though they have been sat on the bookshelf for 18 x months unread! However, as I mentioned, my focus of recent has been very much on the DX7.
Careful, don’t tell this guy audacity is freeware. He already thinks dragging a freeware VST to the Steinberg folder will make him format his box again because it’s freeware.
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