Programming synths and playing keyboard ?

The Moog Forum Moog Music General Topics Forum
21

eric: "Its NEVER too late to learn something "

I beg to differ. I am a sport coach (and a coaching theorist), and I respectfully beg to TOTALLY differ.

Somebody who is posting on a moog website and who asks about 3500 usd synth programming,

is certainly not a kid nor a teenager. He probably is at leat in his 30s.

Either he has already some musical capacity, or IT IS too late for him to acquire manual dexterity (Jarrett chubby fingers are… ahem… a metaphor. His hands can be chubbier than wakeman’s, but the man has definitely some HUGE hand-ear coordination, not to mention artistical skills).

As for “synth programming being an objective task”, well…

Yes. Proviso you don’t mistake quantification for objectivity.

A moog filter is a moog filter, an open filter is an open filter. A specific filter will self-oscillate at a specifc setting. This is objective. And quantifiable.

But.

wether thousands and thousands of ugly presets in the last Yamaha or Korg do-it-all workstation are ART, good art, good music, or just plain shit…

… well, that is not quantifiable.

The judgement about those presets may be objective in a wide philosophical sense (I, for example, think that Beethoven is good for objective reasons, non just according to my own personal judgement, but it would take a lot of discussion to support that - and I wouldn’t extend that kinf of judgement on a single tool - like a mass-produced synth preset is),

but that doesn’t mean “good for everybody”, nor it means “reproducible or transmissible by standard measurement”.

In simpler terms, ther’s no such thing as

—> creating sounds as painting by numbers.

I’d like to be more specific but I don’t think a forum is the correct place.

Boy, is this discussion becoming serious…

22

post scriptum:

eric “do as I say not as I do”.

Of course.

And don’t do anything I wouldn’t do.

:wink:

23

  1. With the learning curve involved in understanding the principles of analogue subtractive synthesis, engaging in such practices would be beneficial as studies are showing that the key to living longer is keeping your brain actively engaged in new things. The complexities within Bob Moogs designs will warrant years of study before one fully masters these techniques.

  2. Synthesis is hardly physical so unless one is bedridden with osteoarthritis, I don’t quite see how this compares to sports. Unless perhaps ones hands are so swollen they cannot play a keyboard.

  3. You never know about the age of people and their resources. I saw a picture of some 12 year old on the dotcom website with Keith Emerson as his idol with a HUGE modular synth (obviously driven by his father). I do agree with you about the original poster, however, I have to play the devils advocate. I was 14 years old when I began my musical studies and if I would have had the money I would be on here wondering why synthesis is so complicated and sporting my voyager.

  4. I don’t agree, my father is almost 60 and if he workd on the Felip excercises im sure he would get some of that back. Of corse not as much as he had before but it is not as if the original poster will never play a keyboard. I will say though that usually refinement comes in age and makes up for the technical prowess a more youthful player may posess.

  5. Synthesizer cookbook. The properties of synthesis is physics. Certian instruments produce certian waveshapes which have certian harmonic properties and evolve over a period of time. . If you have the tools, then yes you can paint by number your panel settings on your synthesizer and-as accurately as electronics will allow-achieve the desired sound. It becomes subjective when one begins to discuss the accuracy in the replication. Isn’t something that is objective something that is easily quantifiable?

24

eric: “Certian instruments produce certian waveshapes which have certian harmonic properties and evolve over a period of time. . If you have the tools, then yes you can paint by number your panel settings on your synthesizer and-as accurately as electronics will allow-achieve the desired sound”

come on,

this is “replicating one machine on another”

nothing to do with “synth programming” meant as CREATING new sounds.

As for sports training having nothing to do with musical training, well…

just try both of them.

I tried music at 5 and formal sport at 8, and…

well, just try

25

You are splitting hairs now. SYnth programming is creating new sounds. In a burst of creative trial and error you can end up with the sound of a Rhodes or Clavinet without setting out to do that. This is why learning the properties of synthesis (painting by numbers) will guide you to knowing HOW to create new sounds.

Synthesis is replication by its very definition.


I did formal sports too (little league) and I won a trophy (we all did). I also took Taekwondo at age 5 and if I stayed in it I probably would have had a black belt by 6. :laughing:


Hey,
Don’t take my responses as hostile. I rather enjoy this conversation.

Eric

26

I am using this book http://www.shop-com.co.uk/Learn_to_Play_Keyboards_A_Beginner_39_s_Guide_to_Playing_All_Electronic_Keyboard_Instruments_by_Paul_Lennon,_Steve_Ashworth_and-137038797-166134471-p+.xhtml?sourceid=309 , which shows all the finger positions, i was doing ok until i had to play a B minor chord then an F sharp minor chord straight after it which is not easy, this is an amazing book, the exercises and the tunes in it really appeal to me, if i got piano lessons this is how i would like to be taught, i just imagine piano lessons would be quite stuffy.

27

erick "Synthesis is replication by its very definition. "

No, it isn’t, BY ITS VERY DEFINITION.

Sampling is replication.

Synthesis is, etymologically and factually, assembling something new from basic components.

The discussion is losing sharpness and interest.

One thing that I hate is forum-generated oversimplification and drifting.

Sorry, but that’s it.

28

With Synthesis, you are using the properties of Physics to replicate on a machine the process which already occurs in nature.




Ozy,
Look, theres no reason to get upset, and theres really no reason to argue about it, we obviously have differing ideas, and thats cool. Perhaps we should agree to disagree. I look forward to your contributions here and I don’t want you to think that Im here specifically to have the last word or to run people off, as is typical on other forums. You brought up some good points and before we deviated into the semantics, Paul figured out what he wanted to do.

Eric

29

Dang, I just made a big bowl of popcorn and you guys quit!

(I’ve actually enjoyed the differance in perception you two have on the subject. But I still don’t see how my wrestling, football or motorcycle racing have helped me play the keys. If anything, they have made it more difficult from all the injury to the hands. I’ve never broken a sweat playing piano when I wasn’t under 1000’s of watts of lighting.)

30

You’re not playing hard enough! :smiling_imp:

31

I made a mistake…I played PEE WEE league. I still got a trophy though.

32

“just me”:

you say you don’t know how playing sport, using your body, getting fit, training rythm and movement and hand-eye coordination…

… could have helped you playing good music?

well…

it would be a bit long to explain it, but…

… think about the fact the you just DID it, and it was a relevant part of your life if you came to the point of straining a bit a getting hurt sometimes.

Why?

Why didn’t you combine music and, let’s say, crochet? or bird-watching?

Is the music you play somehow related to strenght, quickness, alertness? any signature changes, by chance? dueling solos with band collegues?

There is some back-and-forth going on between playing a game and playing music.

I have been both a baseball player and a music player since I was a kid, and I got scolded 1000 times by teachers and band collegues for “risking your fingers and elbow on that darn game” (parents were divided on the issue, heh heh)…

now pass that popcorn, please


:laughing:

33

I will say from a Physical Therapist in Training’s perspective that there is value in the effort that must be made to perform a piece of music, both functionally and cognitively.