Hello wonderful Moogers out there. I just purchased/received my new CP-251 Control Processor, and I’ve successfully been able to use it with my Phatty Stage II’s left INPUT panel (inputting CP-251 LFO to CV PITCH, etc), but I have not been able to successfully use the CP-251 with the Phatty Stage II’s right CV/GATE OUT panel (being able to affect/change the sound of the LP Stage II, etc), which is one of the main reasons I decided to get the CP-251! I wanted to use it with the LP Stage II’s right CV/GATE OUT panel. I’m not the most knowledgeable user when it comes to modular synthesis, but I do know a little. Could you please help me with some Patching ideas to use with the LP Stage II’s right CV/GATE OUT panel? I have 7 patch cables I can use. The CP-251 Users Manual was made before the LP CV/GATE OUT MOD, so it does not come with any Patch ideas/examples for the right CV/GATE OUT panel. Could you please share with me some good Patching ideas, so that I am actually able to affect/change/move the LP Stage II’s sound! Believe me, I’ve tried. Thanks a bunch, all. Would really appreciate it.
Pitch CV out to Filter CV in. The higher you play up the keyboard the higher the filter cutoff.
Patch that through the CP-251 attenuator/voltage inverter and the higher the pitch the lower the filter cutoff.
Pitch CV out through the S&H input, Gate CV out to Trigger, S&H output back into filter cutoff CV input or Pitch CV input. Don’t know how musical that would be but should be plenty weird.
Use the CP-251 MIXER to combine CV’s from the Phatty with the LFO of the CP-251 to create complex waveforms. Use the waveforms for any of the CV ins on the Phatty.
Mod buss output to S&H back to Pitch or Filter CV inputs. Now you can control S&H amount with mod wheel.
Pitch CV out to LFO rate control. The higher (or lower if inverted) you play up the keyboard the faster (or slower) the modulations.
ALWAYS use the mixer to combine waveforms and not the Mult. Using the mult to combine waves can result in voltages that may damage circuits in the Phatty.
The above uses also apply to MoogerFoogers. You can use the Phatty CV’s to control parameters on the MF’s and use the MF CV’s to control parameters on the Phatty.
very interesting. thanks. so this sounds like you HAVE TO actually use both the left side INPUT panel, AND the right side OUTPUT panel to EFFECTIVELY use the CP-251? like, so you can’t just use the CV/GATE outputs with the CP-251 effectively, you have to for example use the CV/GATE outputs AND the left side panel INPUTS with the CP-251 at the same time to effectively make use of the CP-251? (if this is the case, thats kind of weird/inconvenient, too bad both the INPUTS AND OUTPUTS aren’t on the right side panel. you have to be patching things around/across the entire synth).
also these potential “dangerous/incorrect” patches that I’m hearing about kind of scare me. what I mean is that I’ve always been a DIY kind of person. I’ve always learned best through practice and trial and error. for example, I like to experiment and see what happens, what works and what doesn’t, and I don’t want to patch something “wrong/incorrectly” using the CP-251 and “FRY” my Phatty. this kind of bums me out. I’m not a self-proclaimed synth expert/genius.
thanks for your responses, advice and opinions! really appreciate it.
You could always use a voltmeter/multimeter to check what is coming off a patch cable before you plug it into the CV in. I am not 100% on the CV in max voltage. If I remember correct it is designed to function -5V to +5V and safe upto 12V or 15V. Hopefully someone who actually knows will chime in with the values. The CV out was an afterthought. Several locations were considered and it is in the best location of the possibilities in my opinion. It is also nice being on opposite sides so you don’t plug a patch cable that’s supposed to go into an in into an out or vice-versa. Though it is possible to manipulate the CV out and send it back in, it is primarily used to control external gear (foogers or other synths with CV ins) with CVs generated within the LP.
so, to simplify my question to the fullest; I’m trying to find out
can you (just) use the LP right side CV outputs with the CP-251, effectively?
yes or no?
for example, lets say when the LP came out, the cv inputs never were there/existed, and then they added the CV/GATE OUT mod later, would you be able to THEN use the LP + CV/GATE OUT mod with the CP-251?
You really should read the manual for the 251 and check out some Youtube clips about how the 251 operates.
You can use the right-side outputs to manipulate Moogers or other CV-devices, but if the Phatty and the 251 are what you have, then the patches would go back into the Phatty to affect the CV signal inputs of the Phatty.
that makes absolute perfect sense. thanks so much.
definitely studying the manual.
excited to now explore the possibilities of the LP’s IN’s and OUT’s and the CP-251
especially gonna try to learn about the potentially wrong/dangerous patches that can potentially “fry” my LP/CP-251! that definitely scares me. the last thing I’d want is to “fry” my LP.
too bad Moog didn’t think about these things beforehand. I’m pretty sure there are ways to build things so that “wrong patching” does not harm the instrument.
Actually, Robert Moog spent considerable time “fool-proofing” his designs.
Proper use of Moog-designed CV circuits and the CP-251 should never result in voltages that Moog gear cannot handle.
Just remember to NEVER simply use a mult to combine signals. ALWAYS use the mixer function of the CP-251 when combining control signals. Use the attenuators when connecting gear from different manufacturers that use higher CV voltages than Moog or when connecting CV’s from other gear that you’re not sure about.
Pretty much everything in the Moog line can handle a -5 to +5 volt CV signal. Some parameters are designed to have an operating range of -2.5 to +2.5 (like Panning) but also be aware that you can “force” certain parameters beyond their stated range. Like the LFO on the MF-102 can go slower or faster than the range listed on the front of the unit by applying lower or higher CV’s. Same goes for the Freqbox. CV inputs like the “Pan” on a Voyager are limited to the stated range because when you pan something all the way to one side or another it’s not like it can go any further. But applying a +5 voltage to that input isn’t going to harm the circuit, it just has no effect on the parameter after it goes past +2.5 volts.
I have read anecdotal accounts on this BBS about folks using gates signals of up to +10 volts without problems, but when I use a hardware sequencer with my Voyager I use the attenuater on the gate just to be on the safe side.
Check out the SquareWave group on Yahoo Groups for the stuff by GregAE about using the MF-102 CV’s. He explains a lot of this stuff better than I can here and has a bunch of examples of patches that can give you a better idea of how CV works between Moog keyboards, the CP-251, and outboard effects with CV.
what I would really like to know is 1 thing. If I’m using only the Little Phatty (with CV/GATE mod) and the CP-251 Control Processor, and nothing else, no other external instruments, no other brand synthesizers, is it POSSIBLE to potentially “fry” anything inside my Little Phatty or the CP-251 by patching something “incorrectly”?
for example, “Just remember to NEVER simply use a mult to combine signals. ALWAYS use the mixer function of the CP-251 when combining control signals.”
what If I accidently did “do that”? would I mess up my Phatty and/or CP-251? I’m honestly just learning more about CV control/processing with the CP-251.
no offense to Moog Music, but I called them and spoke with someone at “technical support” and asked this simple question, but this guy gave me a lot of… “um” “um” “hmm” “hmm” “i don’t think” “i don’t think” 'i’m pretty sure" “i’m pretty sure”. honestly, I don’t think this guy knew very much about what he was talking about. he sounded unsure. i was kind of let down.
I wish I could talk to Amos or knew his email address. He knows what he’s talking about for sure!
i’m just trying to do things right. i’m not a synth “expert”. I have a nice custom modular system (euro format) and this thing was built so that no “wrong” patch(es) would f*** it up! so I have all the freedom in the world to experiment. and If I can potentially f up my Little Phatty then I’d rather not f*** with the CP-251!
Try emailing Rosser (at) Moog. Amos is busy with software these days.
If you’re scared, don’t go over five volts and you should be fine. Most CV inputs have a “current limiting resistor” which acts as a sink when too much voltage is supplied.
When you use a multiple correctly, you draw current from one source out to several destinations. Combining two sources leads to parallel DC voltages, which can flow into each other (low output impedance) and may damage the output circuitry.
then I probably just shouldn’t even mess with the CP-251, cause I don’t even know what " When you use a multiple correctly, you draw current from one source out to several destinations. Combining two sources leads to parallel DC voltages, which can flow into each other (low output impedance) and may damage the output circuitry" means.
and I’m not trying to “read up” on all of this. so I’m not gonna risk messing up my Phatty just for trying to experiment with the CP-251.
I’m a fan of of just “doing it”.
I don’t want to go to art school, I just want to make art.
