OLD VS NEW

The Moog Forum Moog Music General Topics Forum
1

I recently purchased a Minimax along with a few other VA synths such as a Virus B and a Nord modular. ting back into making electronic music and soundscapes. )

I guess my point of the thread is, I really want a genuine MOOG instrument. I mean a real Mini moog. I’m willing to spring for a Voyager, but I can buy a vintage ‘D’ on ebay for about the same. Should I buy the original? Midi isn’t a problem for me. I can deal with that issue.

The two worst decisions i ever made were selling my Roland SH5 and selling my Chroma Polaris.

I will eventually find those instruments and re claim them but i always wanted a real minimoog. Am i thinking in the right direction?

2

If you’ve always wanted a mini then thats what you should get providing its in good working order and you put a bit aside for maintenance. Either the mini or voyager are great investments so its a win win situation as you will always get back pretty much what you paid on the second hand market if you change your mind.

Personally i would love to own a mini but the voyager is so much more versatile. Also i now own a phatty which can emulate the mini and voyager very well but with a more cut down feature set.

You wont be disappointed with any of them but maybe go for a minimoog first and if its not what you want you know there are other options.

3

If you really want a genuine Moog instrument, you’ll probably never be satisfied until you get one. But consider:

Since you already have a Minimax, you might want to first see how it compares to the sound of a Model D and/or Voyager. Try an A/B set up to see if you think there are significant differences in the sound to warrant spending the big bucks for a Minimoog or Voyager. You might come to the conclusion that the Minimax is close enough for your needs.

On the plus side, the Minimax has the same layout as a Minimoog, with 12 voice polyphony and patch storage. On the minus side, the Minimax layout is smaller than a real Minimoog, it’s a MIDI module (not a keyboard) and you may find that its sound is close, but not close enough to the real thing for your liking.

I had the chance to A/B my Minimax against a friends Model D. The result was that we both felt that the Minimax did a respectable job of reproducing the sound of a Model D, but it was not exact. On many of the patches, the Model D tone had a slight ‘edge’ to it that the Minimax couldn’t achieve (FWIW, the Voyager couldn’t quite get there, either). Ultimately, we agreed that the sound of the Minimax was somewhere between the Model D and the Voyager, and that it might not matter much in a live setting. Of course, we also realize that no two Model D Minis are going to sound alike either, so any test that you might perform may yield a different result.

Of course, none of this matters if your truely want a Moog synth (‘Because I’ve always wanted one’ is a good enough reason for me). Just give yourself some time to consider your options.

My .02.


Greg

4

Choosing a Minimoog as your instrument is in many ways an aesthetic choice. By choosing Minimoog (and I mean a Minimoog, not a Voyager, which is a Voyager), you are saying that you prefer the warm, buzzy, gooey sound that they generate… but you’re also saying that you prefer staying on top of tuning, don’t mind lacking the functionality of modern synths, and choose to embrace the desire to perform physically as an instrumentalist.
Many seek more functionality, more stability, less repair, and a more “modern” sound. If you do, you might think about getting a Voyager or the like.
Owning a Minimoog is a labour of love… you have to specifically desire both the positives AND the negatives, or your extreme investment might not sit well with you. Personally, I can’t imagine ANYONE not being happy with a Minimoog, but I have an intense bias. : )
If you’re going for functionality and great sound, any Moog, especially modern ones, will do. If you are seeking that vintage sound and are willing to share your life with the ups and downs of vintage Moog ownership, then the Minimoog is for you.

5

All great points made above. Just another viewpoint from someone who owns a Model D and a LP…

Since you long for a Mini “D”, if you have the cash available to do regular upkeep on the Model D, and if you have a good tech around, then go with the Model D. Nothing else sounds quite like it. My Model D is in PRISTINE condition (not mint, as per Keven Lightner :wink: ) and has no operating problems. It works fine and I have never had a problem with it. However, I fear the day that something goes wrong with it; in fact I bought another Mini for spare parts, but ended up selling it to rustle up the cash for a new mixer and the LP. I use it on a limited basis to “keep the hours off” in order to prevent any problems.

The Voyager does a TON more than the Model D, with easy expansion capabilities via Moogerfoogers, so if you are looking for semi-modular synth capabilities, go with the Voyager. If you are looking for that old time “Moog sound” that you have heard over the years, the Voyager comes close but it does sound different than the Model D.

I love the LP, and it has taken over for the Model D in my studio, more to protect my Model D. If I want that Wakeman lead sound, however, while the LP comes close (very close), I turn to the Model D.

If you are a Moog freak (aren’t most of us on this forum?) you probably won’t be happy without owning all three. If you are looking for Moog type sounds, your software synths may be enough to keep you happy.

For me, if I was going to purchase just one, I would probably buy the Voyager. Does everything that the others do, and more, it is new, it is easy to repair, and sounds close enough to the Model D to make most people happy.

What a great conundrum to have!! You can’t lose with any of the choices.

6

This is always a good subject. Mini Moog is great, and many other vintage synths, but I don’t gig with mine anymore, I just play them to amuse myself and compare some of my patches to similiar patches on new synths.
I owned two Mini Moog’s at one time, Moog Taurus One pedals, still have a Moog Source in GREAT condition. I own some other vintage synths; a Prophet 5, an Arp Odyssey. If you want to PLAY your instrument on a regular basis, get a Voyager, or a Phatty. Can’t beat new equipment with a warranty and the availability of parts.

Mike T.

7

Go with the Voyager. Veteran Mini owners believe there are differences, which is true, but the differences are small in comparison with the huge similarities gained with a Voyager along with the advantages of something new with midi and a warranty. It sounds great, maybe a little different but quite similar to a Mini.

8

Old ways is best ways.

9

The lord put roads for travelling: why he laid them down flat on the earth. When he aims for something to be always a-moving , He makes it long ways, like a road or a horse or a wagon, but when He aims for something to stay put, He makes it up-and-down ways, like a tree or a man. And He never aimed for folks to live on a road, because which gets there first, I says, the road or the house? Did you ever know Him to set a road down by a house? I says. No you never, I says, because it’s always men can’t rest till they gets the house set where everybody who passes in a wagon can spit in the doorway, keeping the folks restless and wanting to get up and go somewhere else when He aimed for them to stay put like a tree or a stand of corn. Because if he’d a aimed for a man to be always a-moving and going somewheres else, wouldn’t He a put him longways on his belly, like a snake? It stands to reason.

10

I dunno, Eric.
Sometimes a good road starts and sometimes a bad one ends.

To put this in perspective, Bob Moog was born the day that Bonnie and Clyde were killed.

In context of Mini D’s vs Voyagers, I would say that if you can afford both, get one of each. If you have just one, the other one will seem that much different.
To someone that’s had neither, either one will be appreciated. :slight_smile:

11

Well said, Kevin.
This is hitting the nail perfect !

(a owner of both Minimoog flavours)

12

I can understand the aesthetic argument. If you love everything about the Minimoog, you will always wonder if you made the right decision after buying a Voyager. Parts are a bit scary (capacitors go bad), I am not familiar enough with the guts of most of my equipment to feel secure with my collection of “originals.” The Voyager and LP are going to be much less hassle.
On the issue of aesthetics, the Voyager and the LP are both tempting, but there is something that bothers me about LCD screens and backlit panels. If you think of it more as an instrument and less as a tool, the interface and design are extremely important. The limitations of the Minimoog (compared to the more versatile Voyager) are not such an issue if you feel at home on it. It is good to set boundaries to work within, versatility is not necessarily everyones idea of freedom. If you have had a lifelong obsession with the Minimoog, you probably won’t be happy until you get it. This is not a logical debate (the Voyager makes more logical sense), it is your own personal preference… and it sounds like that is the Minimoog.

13

I submit that the question “should I get a Voyager or a Minimoog (yes, I adhere to my restrictive nomenclature: despite Moog’s marketing intention, the Voyager is not a Minimoog, so the distinction of “Minimoog D” or “Minimoog Voyager” is pointless)” is a flawed question from the outset.
Despite having the same brand name, these synthesizers are different synthesizers with a different sound, different functionality, and really, different initial intention. Moog has tried to suggest that the Voyager is a new-version Minimoog D, which suggests that there is some connection between the two, but there really isn’t. They have similar functionality in SOME ways, but not enough for them to be considered the same keyboard.
So, the question “should I get a Voyager or a Minimoog” is really no different than asking “should I get an Odyssey or a Minimoog,” or more accurately, “should I get a Multimoog or a Minimoog?” You have two different keyboards with different sounds, different aethetics, different intentions, different designs, and different functionality (inasmuch as the functionality of any analog synthesizer differs from another).
Keeping that in mind, I return to my original statement… which of these two keyboards you should purchase depends on how you intend to use the one you purchase, what your motivation for having a Moog is, and what aspects of analog synthesizer ownership appeal to you and do not appeal to you.
There is likely to be more maintenance involved with a Minimoog (it’s also not likely to be how some are making it sound… that your Minimoog is going to be constantly falling apart and doing weird things), but the tradeoff is original Minimoog functionality and sound.
The Voyager has far more functionality, will be probably problem free for many years due to its newness, has a clear, stable sound… etc.

The real question is, do you want your Moog synthesizer in Modern Powerful, or Vintage Sonorous?

14

As stated very appropriately above…They both are the real deal and they both are different, I’m fotrunate enough to have both and would find it hard to say much less explain why one is better than the other. Good luck and start saving for the one you didn’t choose your gonna want it too :wink:

15

Not to discourage you but if your buying an old Mini off Eay, be prepared (not that it will happen, but be prepared) for spending some $ on repairs.
When I got my Mini on Ebay several years ago it was advertised as sounds great! When I received it it was barely musical 2 dead osc. keyboard assembly needed to be overhauled, a torn up frayed power cord that almost sent me to the promised land. After 3 months of work the Mini sounded awesome and worked perfectly and is no longer a hazard to my health. As strange asl this sounds..I’d buy it again.

16

The agonizing thing about buying a Mini on eBay is THE WAITING. When I couldn’t afford a Mini, there was a glut of them. Like… 10 at any given moment. The moment I could afford one, there were one or two, neither of which were buyable. The hard thing to do when you finally have enough to get a Mini on eBay is to wait for the perfect intersection of the one that SOUNDS right, the one that LOOKS right, and the one where the seller is straightforward, friendly, and concise. I got too impatient when I bought mine… I bought it for a price that was excessive for that time, even though several of the knobs don’t have the original silver thing in them. The seller was Polish, but living in America. The whole thing was uncomfortable, and it took him FOREVER to send it. It had one clunky key, and I could never tell if that was a shipping thing or something he concealed.
But, yeah… if you’re going to buy a Mini on eBay, you’ve got to be patient. Wait until one comes along that looks in good condition, plays well, and has a seller that earns your trust. Ask 1 billion questions!

17

I agree on the patience aspect, but it still doesn’t mean one will get a good Mini.
For example, there’s no telling how well the unit will be packed or whether it has problems the owner is not aware of and the potential owner knows to ask about.
Many problems develop through shipping too, so there’s a friction point where the buyer gets a problem unit and the seller is truthfully saying it worked fine.

One of the big problems is that few Minis on Ebay truly work 100% correctly to begin with.
Then the new owner is angry or disappointed and has to wait (and pay) for a tech to hopefully resolve their issues.
With the fact that good techs are more scarce than Minis, the owner is only halfway through his battle and often out of additional funds.

18

I bought my Mini last year, and it was completely opposite from Museslave’s experience.

First, I found my seller on the Moog archive forum. He said that he had a '72 Mini, with all black switches, and was wondering what it was worth.

I e-mailed him maybe 6 months after he had originally posted–and also after many people had replied to him telling him the black switch thing might be a drawback to buyers (although, I liked the idea of all black switches). I made a pretty low offer, considering most every Mini I saw on e-bay was selling near $2000.

At this point I wasn’t absolutely sure if he was for real or a scam artist-- but he sent me a picture, and we e-mailed back and forth for several months (I had already been looking for a Mini for well over a year-- what’s a few more months). We decided on a reasonable price of $1200, considering his opinion that the Mini was in need of significant repair before it would be playable. I talked to him several times on the phone, and he even played the Mini for me once or twise (some keys/switches/knobs weren’t working)

A few more months went by, then he decided he didn’t want to sell it after all. A few more months went by, and after e-mailing him to check in again-- he relented, decided once more to sell it, and told me he’d include shipping charges in the 1200 as well.

I paid him via a 3rd party internet escrow service.

A few days later, I recieved a '72 Mini in remarkably good condition–but in need of a cleaning.

This was last year, and he still e-mails me from time to time to see how the Mini is doing. Very nice fellow.

19

No, there are no guarantees. Of course, you have so often seen the outcome of a lot of people’s bad eBay experiences.
However, apart from my Minimoog experience (which really wasn’t THAT bad, I’ve had FAR worse… my Opus III story, for example), most of my eBay keyboard purchases have been in very good condition and are almost always fully functional.
If you stick to well-written auctions with clear pictures and an experienced seller, your chances of getting a decent keyboard are quite good, according to my extensive eBay synth-buying experience.
Especially in the case of Minimoogs. Why? Because Minimoogs are popular, and with the exception of the dark decade we won’t mention, they have always been popular. The days of “I found this Minimoog mouldering in my basement,” are nearly gone… most sellers are musicians who have been using their Minimoog and treating it like the expensive device it is. If they’re not, you can usually tell in the pictures. If you can’t, you can usually tell by the seller or their text.
Still, I agree… there are no guarantees on eBay, but as a person who has been buying and selling synthesizers there for 8 years, I can attest to the success rate of using a little common sense and patience in examining auctions and buying.