Hello Everybody,
I am thinking about getting a VX-352 expander for my RME. I want to be able to control the RME without using a MIDI keyboard. Do you think that if I used EP-2 Expression Pedals plugged into the Pitch jack on the 352 and a FS-1 Foot Switch plugged into the Envelope Gate jack I could accomplish this? Any other ideas? Something(s) I am missing?
I am disappointed that nobody joined in and discussed this topic. In general I feel that the RME is under-appreciated. I have always preferred to use it as a stand-alone table-top synth. I really would like to know what other RME users out there use it as a stand-alone synth or as the centerpiece of a modular synth system (that incorporates Moogerfoogers).
I don’t see why it wouldn’t work, as it is a CV device and the pedal should operate it.
Ive really been thinking about the RME because Im building a Modular synth that is going to be rack based, and I have a lot of the Foogers already, I just lack the cabinet and the shelves.
THe thing is that I want the digital voyager and I also want the keyboard, but Id really appreciate having both the OS and the RME instead of having the JUST the select series. Id like the RME for the memory and the Old school for its keyboard but THe only way that I woudl get both of those is if they made a dedicated touchpad controller.
So, Im considering the RME and the Keyboard that dotcom offers, because its capable of dual voices and from what I gather would control the RME just fine. My only hesitation about the RME is the fact that so many users are having problems with the Midi. THat keyboard woudl work good for you as its both midi and cv if im not mistaken.
THe reason why I am thinking such things is because Im finding my keyboard technique growing past the small keyboard of the micro and I can see it growing past the voyagers range as well.
The pedals will control your keyboard but getting precision out of them is going to be difficult…more like a foot theremin. WIth the CV inputs of the 352 you shohudl be able to control the RME with any of your voltage controlled synths, after you attenuate the signal properly. You could probably use 1 pedal alone to control both the pitch and the envelopes with the multiple on the 352.
Don’t forget about your Foogers either. THey will do wonders. LIke the envelope follower output will trigger the envelope on the RME. THe Ringmod will control it via the LFO. I don’t know if the delay will have a CV output that will send a gate to the envelope at the delay speed.
EricK
I really wish that our theremins had the CV circuits. ARRRRG! Im thinking about seeing how much someone could hot rod it for me since they stopped making the Pro model.
EricK,
Thanks for replying. Using the RME without a keyboard controller really isn’t a necessity for me. I usually get good results with my M-Audio Radium 49 MIDI keyboard. I have looked at that Synthesizers Dotcom keyboard that you mentioned.
It’s been mentioned in another thread, but for those of you who want to use the RME without a MIDI keyboard, you can turn on the Mod Wheel Buss via pot mapping.
The RME is a powerful instrument rich in capabilities of its own. I try not to think of it as a mere rack mount synth. In fact, I think that it looks better than the Old School! Yeah, and this comment is coming from a guy who wished that Moog Music had done the Old School in the first place! Yep, it took me a while to warm up to the RME. I kept on thinking that all of the digital/MIDI functions were somehow corrupting my soul or messing with my karma or something. The Old School IS a handsome instrument, there is no doubt >> it seems like there is a lot of “wasted space” on the control panel - all for the sake of accomodating the length of the keyboard >>> as compared to the brilliantly economical look of the RME panel. And from what I understand, the OS sounds exactly the same as the Voyager - it is just minus all of the digital stuff. It seems apparent that the RME is actually more feature-rich than the OS! I only use keyboard about half the time that I play the RME, so I am not really missing the keyboard on the OS.
Thanks a lot for all of the tips on how I could use my Foogers to control the RME via the VX-352.
EricK, one of my favorite musical partners, Jay Peele, has a MicroMoog, and he loves it. I think it’s great too - it has a big thick rich bottom-heavy sound - and Jay has no problems keeping up with me or K. Paul Boyev and our RME’s! All three of us are members of The Analog Synthesizer Ensemble). Any way, I am going to go visit him in Jacksonville tomorrow for some recording and I am going to suggest that he use my FreqBox as an extra oscillator as you have taled about elsewhere.
Yeah, me too! But I have been getting some good and interesting results with my Etherwave connected to the FreqBox. I know it’s not exactly the same thing you are talking about, but the possibilities are exciting.
I think that Moog Music ought to offer CV out mod service for the Etherwave Standard as a hardware upgrade.
WHen I first hooked up the theremin to the Freq, I didn’t get great results. THe second time though I experimented a little more and I don’t know if this is supposed to happen, but As I got within an inch from the pitch antenna, I heard a definate distorted noise, followed by the familliar sum and difference of Ring Modulation.
WHat I really think is a good sound and one that I meant to record last time my partner Gabe and I got together was I had the CP251 controlling the Freq with a sample and hold (which is by far one of my favorite synth sounds and on ALOT of our songs) but I had the expression pedal connected to the MIX input. So When I would sweep the theremin I would increase the mix and so it was a theremin with S&H in the background for a second and its really a lot of sound. I had that running through the delay. (The theremin seems to be meant for delay, especially the Moog delay. Moog stuff seems to compliment eachother so well!)
I have gotten to the point where I am approacing mastery of the MicroMoog. Well I can say that I think Im learning it completely until I learn something else and realize what I don’t know lolol. One thing about the Micro that I will compare it to the Phatty is the doubling knob. It really makes it sound like it has 2 Oscillators because you can double the sound of one and I think thats similar to the overdrive on the LP. WHen I hook up the patch where Im controlling the Freq and the Ring Mod as external oscillators, it almost sounds like the Foogers are too much. I think that just the straight sound of the Micro is enough to really drive home the point. Granted theres no substitute for having a host of Oscillators like the Voyager but I think that a lot of people take that for granted and give the Micro and other 1 osc synths bad reviews because it is so limited. THe Micro, however, was built with this limitation in mind, so they included modulation capabillities to make it a seperate beast from its big brother, the Mini D, at least until its suped up clone the Multi Moog came out. Frankly Id kill for a Multi!
I always wondered…because I had a voyager for a few months and Im totally hurting inside because I had to sell it…Would the operating system of the Voyager shorten its lifespan? Would the Digitality of the Voyager actually cripple it 30 of 40 years down the road whereas the OS and the Mini D don’t have that, therefore they would last longer. Like lets say that Moog dissappears and 30 years from now we need upgrades…Will the OS stand the test of time like the Mini, or will the Voyager Performer last as long as the Mini?
Regardless of which Voyager anyone owns…its unique. Its something that I shoot myself in the pinky toe every single day over.
I think that going the OS + RME route for polyphany is an awesome way to go about building a synth…you have the memory, plus the no frills panel exploration. One thing that I absolutely think spoils the player though is that they have the digital value for their pot setting. Like with the micromoog and the Cp251, trying to perfectly sync up the lfo to the tempo can be the tiniest, most subtle, most often overcompensated fraction of a turn that the slightest nervous impulse can mess up lol. WIth digital values you simply look at the number lololol. Its a great benefit.
I could go on all day about Moog and Theremins, and all that stuff!
I found the Moog Drum COntroller on ebay and I absolutely had to win that bid. I keep it in a box now but Its a really neat thing. Like it has a sensitivity control so that the harder you hit the drum the higher the pitch. What I like to do is to use the drum like a ride cymbal for a walking bass effect.
I saw that video that you guys posted…it was pretty neat! I imagine that it must be fun to gather the various Moogs together. I call all of the Moog gear “The Moog” because its all one entity really. I wish I had Herbie Hancock’s collection at my disposal.
Dop you have a myspace page or anything?
Eric
EricK,
Yes, you are right. Learning to use the Etherwave theremin with the FreqBox definitely takes some study and trying different things out. I have a long way to go in this respect but I did try it in a live performance setting recently, and you can check out some video of that here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lWK4oQnhF4
I have been thinking about getting the CP-251, and I will try out your theremin + Sample & Hold 251 suggestion, when I do get one.
I know what you mean about the MicroMoog being a powerful synth in and of itself. It has a killer tone and a big rich full sound. And you are right that synths like it and the Rogue don’t get their proper credit as great synths. I have had my Rogue since 1984 (and have used it on dozens of albums) and it still sounds great with no noticeable deterioration cosmetically or functionally. It is indeed true as you have pointed out that sometimes less is more.
That being said, the Voyager RME is certainly a sufficient synth and a powerful gnarly beast. I have gotten some crazy sounds where the oscillators are frequency modulating each other - absolutely astounding.
During our recent Analog Synthesizer Ensemble session K. Paul Boyev (Otolathe) controlled his RME with a Frostwave spaceBEAM via the VX-352.
Another possibility that has occurred to me is that I could control the RME with the Rogue via the 352 using the Rogue’s Keyboard CV Out jack and Trig/Gate Out jack.
And you are absolutely right about the theremin + Moog MF-104Z analog delay. I can’t imagine the theremin without the MF-104. And of course the 102 Ring Mod sounds good in there too.
Your question about whether the operating system and digitality of the Voyager will shorten its lifespan is a question that a lot of people have pondered I am sure. We see comments about these kinds of issues every day here on the Mooger Forum. I am a little suspicious (and this is especially true of myself) that some of us might be suffereing from a kind of ill-founded Luddite paranoia about the digital features of the Voyager and Little Phatty. On another forum I read people saying that the Voyager OS throws 20 years of technological advances out the window. Hahahaha. While ancient and revered beasts like the Rogue and MicroMoog have served us well, synths like the Voyager and Phatty are probably more “reasonable”, because they give the modern synth user more options. Let’s face it, we live in a digitized world - and there’s no going back.
There is a big part of me that screamed in horror at the very idea of an analog synth with presets! OMG. We didn’t need any frickin presets back in the day - we just winged it into outer space. And this prejudice is the very thing which kept me from falling in love with my Voyager RME for such a long time. When I saw the Voyager OS t-shirt with the words “Presets Are For The Weak”, I laughed myself silly. As I have said elsewhere, I never ever use the presets on my RME - except for one that I have created myself so that I can have the MW Buss turned on when I am not using a MIDI keyboard. There are tons of features that I have not yet used, hidden in the menus of the RME. But why complain about having too much? Slowly, bit by bit, I am trying new things - such as selecting different filter poles.
Oh, I have an idea for a Moog t-shirt, with a pic of the RME on the front:
KEYBOARDS ARE FOR THE WEAK
Then again, I have also considered getting the Phatty Stage II and using it to control the RME - that way I would have a 5-oscillator synth set-up.
Yes, I do indeed ahave a MySpace page:
http://www.myspace.com/halmcgee
The first song in my MySpace player, “Zone Of Alienation”, is a new one on which I used the RME.
Cheers,
Hal
Well I think that the factory presets were pretty much to give the uninitiated an idea about what the moog will do. I know that on the extremely few recordings that I gotto do with the voyager that I used some presets. I did though (more often than not) design my own presets from scratch and save them and I had about 7 or so presets that I made that I documented before I sent the voyager to a new home. Just for the sake of being able to recreate a song quite fast and since I overdub alot then I have to have my presets. Too many times I have taken a picture of the knobs of the Micro for documentation purposes and frankly thats crappy. I have been spoiled by the digital brain. I would have liked to have dumped the factory presets to a computer and started again, making mine a very custom voyager with 896 original presets as I grew into it. Im not so religious about analogue that I reject presets, hehe. Im religious about the Moog though in the respect that If anything works, im gona use it. I don’t think I coudl live without pot mapping after learning about its features…then especially when you can chain them together and have the mod wheel externalized to the foogers. With all of the Foogers now the void in my heart that the voyager has left is so big. (CRY)
Im working on a modular synth with autheitic reproductions of Moog Modules. Its looking like its going to be a 9 Osc synth when its completed, 1 from the Micro, 3 from the Voyager, 3 Osc modules and the 102/107 cababillity. With a dotcom 960 seq, all racked in a 22 space ATA rack Mixer cabinet. Its looking like the grand total is around 15K for everything that I want to get but after I get my degree Ill be able to really make progress on that. THe modules are based around the system 15 but with extra added bonus like the sample and hold, the envelope follower, dual trigger delay, extra mults, VC Reverb, etc. Its in its infancy now, mostly consisting of the Foogers that I have and the sole 912A driver with no frame or power supply lol. SO i have a ways to go. I just hope that Moog doesn’t make anything to really keep me pumping in money to them instead of my modules lololo (Like the mp-201 jeez lolol) THen the digital icing on the analogue cake woudl be the Roland Fantom XR, the 1 space rack mount synth JUST for the strongs, piano, and other instruments to bring back to the voyager as in the DVD.
If you try to use your Rogue, you will probably need to attenuate the signals. THe old Moog stuff isn’t directly compatible with the new stuff without attenuation.
Man you have that theremin screaming lol.
THe envelope follower of the 107 coupled with the volume antenna really gives you ALOT of control over stuff…like you can send the envelope follower out to trigger the RME, but use your left hand to really modulate the output amount. I use a Bass Balls pedal with an envelope follower in it and it makes wah like sounds (cause its a dynamic filter) but you can really precicely articulate the wahs as you like. I read somewhere where you can use the envelope follower to trigger a S&H (like with a guitar) and it almost will suprise you when it actually triggers it.
I actually got to use the theremin as a drummachine with the delay. If you stand just outside the zero beat, and just activate the lowest frequency possible (like try for 1 click of the osc) and you play it percussively, then you can almost make a rhythm that repeats instead of creating a tone. Just put the delay on fast and at some of its slowest settings perhaps. I don’t have a good way to upload recordings of what im doing at this point but you can figure it out.
My theremin style of playins is like halfway musical, halfway sci fi. I might try to play half of the phrases with a melody and then step on a pedal on the other half…then stop the track and save it lolol. My theremin technique breathes in this way hahaha.
If you get the VX 352 then you can use the S&H from the voyager without the cp251.
YOu know, I didn’t even use my ep1 for the longest time until I got my delay. I got it when I got my 102 a few years ago and never used it. But now that I can multiply the signal and send it to lots of places I do. Now Im finding that I don’t have enough multiples!
One thing that I really wish I could do though is have a keyboard that I could gig with and leave my Moog at home so it gets no road damage. Im all about playing live but Im not about taking my vintage and or expensive equipment anywhere unless it had a Trekesque forcefield to protect it from strange hands, scratches and other elements.
Man im supposed to be studying for 2 finals but im here talking about Moogs.
EricK
For those much younger than myself this might be a genuine issue of concern. I plan to keep on creating experimental electronic music for the rest of my life, and I HOPE that I will still be making music in the 30 to 40 years from now that you talk about. I only need my RME to last as long as I do.
Hal_McGee what MF do you like or should I say use the most or is it a MF you use the most?
dave500,
I use the MF-104Z Analog Delay on almost every recording and at nearly every live performance. I use the MF-102 Ring Mod quite a lot too, but most of the time I use it as a subtle effect to add interesting sidebands. I usually don’t turn the Mix knob up past 2, except for accents and contrasts and chaotic sections of the music. I recently acquired the MF-107 FreqBox, but I have not developed an understanding or connection with it yet. For me there is going to be a learning curve with this MoogerFooger, but I can tell that there is a lot of potential.
My main axe is the Moog Voyager RME. Recently I have been using the MF-104 Delay plugged into the Mixer Out/Filter in jack with good results. I also like to use a Danelectro Fab Metal pedal before the delay - it gives the RME’s oscillators and Noise generator more bite before they go to the Filters (thanks for the tip, Greg AE!). The MF-102 doesn’t seem to go too well with the RME in my experience and ways of usage… it’s almost like too much.
I also use the Etherwave Theremin in a lot of live performances - and the MF-102, used subtly, adds a nice flavor. And of course I use the MF-104Z Delay with the Etherwave - they seem to be made for each other!
Another favorite synth of mine is the Little Boy Blue analog synth by Flower Electronics. It is not polite. It possesses a raw beauty and power that appeals to me and I have done some of my best live performances and recordings with it. It’s a small modular synth with two sawtooth oscillators and an envelope follower – you make patches with banana plug cables. One could call it a “noise synth”, but this diminutive killer beast has balls like no other synth. It does some freaky cross-frequency-modulation. I have gotten great results using the Little Boy Blue in a chain with the Moog MF-102 Ring Mod (it really shines in this set-up), Electro Harmonix Big Muff Pi Distortion (Russian), MF-104Z Delay, and an Alesis Microverb III (set to Large Halls reverb setting, with the Mix up at about one-quarter). You can see a video of me playing this LBB and MF set-up at a live show here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvxpOiBaHLw
By the way, I figured out that the Etherwave Theremin gig bag comes in quite handy for transporting two Moogerfoogers!
Hal
I took this comment as a personal challenge to myself to create a piece of music utilizing the FreqBox as a main component of the sound. I used it and two other Moogerfoogers on “High Voltage”. You can listen in streaming audio and download this piece of minimalist experimental electronics on this page:
http://www.halmcgee.com