I noticed the following: When I setup something like a single osc playing in the higher range, I can easily find a range where the cutoff produces some artifact noise when moved. Interesting it is though, when I use e.g. the pedal to change the cutoff in the same range, I dont get the problem, so my guess is, that is has to do with the cutoff knob itself (scanning?).
I just bought a new shining Voyager Performer, with latest OS (3.4) already installed. It sounds fantastic but this noise is very annoying. I don’t hear it when playing normal patches, but if I try to tweak cutoff with very high resonance setting, I can hear them. It is very easy to reproduce if the oscillator is tuned down so that the self-oscillating filter is louder.
This is a minor issue, but the more I think about it, the more it is pissing me off. This was exactly the reason why I bought this VERY expensive instrument instead of some random VA synth in the first place! I don’t know what to do, but I need to do something. My choises are:
By Voyager OS or LP (RAC) and sell my Voyager
The problem here is that OS is sold out, my local dealer says. LP’s RAC sounds exactly what I need, but I just love the Voyager sound..
Build some custom CV controllers for filter
I could put up some self-made CV controller to filter input and be happy… Until next digital artficact pops up which cannot be controlled with CV.
Wait for OS fix
I don’t know if this issue can be fixed with software.
Hi,
the cutoff pot is not a controller to change the filter range. If you want to control the filter cutoff for your music it’s better to use a foot controller.
Have fun,
Rudi
Thanks guys. I’ll build a custom “foot pedal” with a knob that I can play with. The plan is to just hook potentiometer to TRS cable and put them in a nice box.
If I understand this correctly, turning this on/off requires special circuits which are not in Voyager. I believe there are something like this in LP (Real Analog Control, aka RAC).
Right!
when RAC is active you don’t hear processor scanning artifact noises.
For this function you need special analog switches and it would be too expensive to offer this for all pots on a Voyager.
Have fun,
Rudi
I noticed this same problem when I first tried out the Voyager at a music shop. I couldn’t believe my ears when I heard that digital aliasing on an all analog signal path. It completely turned me off from getting a Voyager until the Old School came out. I bought one of those, despite the ridiculous name, and I love it beyond belief.
It’s unfortunate that people have to invent work-arounds or use pedals to avoid digital artifacts on a Moog synthesizer, but I’m glad you guys have found a way to do so. If any digital synth users out there are considering entering analog land via the Voyager, I highly recommend jumping all the way in with the Old School.
The digital features on the Voyager are a dream come true to many people, and I’m not trying to criticize them. In fact, the “problem” seems to be completely unnoticeable unless you max the filter’s resonance and slowly sweep it through the higher ranges. I don’t remember the oscillators acting that way at high frequencies. Realistically, that extreme filter sweep is almost never going to happen in a song, and if it does the stepping would almost certainly be invisible in a mix. So I know it’s really not much of a hindrance, but it’s enough to turn me off. I’m just not interested in anything digital making its way into my sound, no matter how slight or overcome-able it may be.
The filter cutoff is the only parameter which covers a huge range and has to do it in 256 steps. The stepping when moving the cutoff is unavoidable. If this is a deal breaker with the Voyager, you are missing out on everything else that is great and IMO superior to a LP or OS. Frankly, the front panel control are not the place for performance modulation. Its fun to tweak them of course, but I question that grabbing the cutoff is the best way to manipulate the filter in a performance or recording situation.
I have never encountered this on my Performer. Could someone please relate the panel setup that will produce these artifacts so that I can see for myself?
If you would like to change the cutoff (or other parameters) within a small an rather precise range, a pedal might not give you enough detailed control.
But if you use the MP-201 you can do it just as you like, by setting the right amount of variation by using fine tuned HEEL and TOE VALUES. Of cause, you could do this by a slightly modificated expression pedal too. Just some variable resistors are needed to limit the range and the starting point.
But actually, you will most likely not hear these artifacts at all in the real world usage of the Moog Voyager. And there is always the chance to get yourself a Voyager Old School if your are a real purist.
I just built myself a “rotary hand controlled foot pedal” like Jarkko, A real foot pedal is just too imprecise as a controller. But the range of filter cutoff is not the entire spectrum.
I was expecting I’ll have to build an active circuit to get the full voltage range, but I rediscovered the obvious on the CP:-251: make a few TRS 1/4" plugs shorting the ring and tip. Plug these into the foot pedal input on either attenuator. This generates +/-5v output controlled by the attenuator knob. You have enough voltage swing to sweep the filter entirely. Or use the 4 input mixer’s offset knob if you don’t need the mixer.
Bit of new school, bit of old school for the Voyager
B
I noticed this problem when I first tried a Voyager at a music store about four years ago. I was really excited to use an actual analog synthesizer, and I couldn’t wait to max the filter’s resonance and do a full, slow turn of the knob. I was constantly frustrated by my Korg MX’s digital stepping, and I was really excited to finally hear a smooth analog sweep, so you can imagine my shock and chagrin when I heard digital stepping on a Moog synthesizer!
I was very disappointed, and even a little disillusioned. I ended up getting a Macbeth M5N, and I fell in love with its pure analog glory. However, when the Voyager OS came out (I always refer to it as the Model E), I was very happy to become its owner. To be honest, and I know this is sacrilege in some circles, I traded my M5N for it (and the price difference), and the reason I did so is that I like the Model E’s sound much better. It’s warmer, smoother, and creamier (I know those terms are becoming a Moog cliche, but they’re just so apt), and it complements my mostly acoustic, instrumental music much better.
To get back on topic, I was very dissatisfied with this shameful digital artifact. Doesn’t the Voyager have a Real Panel Control setting, though? Does using it fix the problem? I think if I had the Voyager I would always use the Real Panel Control, and then I would save my patches digitally. That seems like a good way to use it. But I guess you’d have to turn off Real Panel Control when you recall your patches…
The Voyager’s a fine instrument, but I’m glad I went with the Model E.
Because the cutoff controller needs such a wide range, would it be possible to replace the rotary encoder with a normal pot, and then hang the rotary encoder off the back of the pot and have it actuated by the pot’s shaft? Doing this would allow you to directly control the cutoff with a CV when twisting the knob during a performance, and yet have a midi cc message available for storage of the parameter when the voice is saved. Of course, if one uses the mod wheel to control the cutoff, then the cutoff would need to be able to be controlled with a midi cc message.
That all being said, unless you are listening to cutoff changes under a small number of specific circumstances, you’re not likely to hear any stepping.
Would it be correct to say that the sampled voltages are used to create midi cc values? Would it also be correct to say that the midi cc values are then used to set the value of the cutoff in real time?
If the above is true, then could the PC board be altered to feed CVs from the pot to the traces that feed analog CVs directly to the cutoff freq without eliminating the scanning of the CV from the cutoff pot? Perhaps the software could then be updated to alter the existing subroutine for the cutoff knob so that it just stored the scanned cutoff cc value without actually making the change to the cutoff filter itself. This would prevent the software from changing the cutoff value when the knob is turned, allow the analog CV to change the cutoff value instead, and keep the cutoff cc value available for the mod wheel to use if it is routed to the cutoff, as well for saving with the preset.
Of course, this is all pure conjecture on my part, as I have absolutely no in-depth knowledge of the circuits or the software involved. However, perhaps this might be the germ of an idea that leads to a solution?