Hey y’all,
just found out about the new slim phatty, and was wondering if anyone has a clue how/can it work with Bass guitar?
thanks in advance!
To confirm this, it would probably be a good idea to look closley through the Slim Phatty manual. But from the surface of it, it dosen’t look like this instrument could be played directly from a standard guitar or bass…
more precisley, what I mean to say is that a standard guitar or bass could not be used as a controler for this instrument without first going though other gear to convert the instruments’ pitch to a MIDI signal.
The Slim Phatty doesn’t appear to have an input for pitch that produces a corresponding CV signal.
Of course, it does appear to have the ability to process external signals–this means that you could process your bass’s signal through the Slim Phatty’s filter…This is also possible with the Lil’ Phatty.
midi pickup on your bass, midi out from this to midi in on the SP..
One of the frequent posters here put together a brief tutorial that discusses how to use string instruments with a Moog synth (just have to find it!).
In essence, there is no envelope follower or line level tunable trigger so your only option is to pipe your guitar signal through the Audio input, to be affected by Filter and LFO (control of filter).
If you have a FreqBox or a LowPass filter Moogerfooger, you can leverage the env follower circuit to open/allow close of the filter. Otherwise, certainly there are boxes that will let you convert a guitar to Midi (usually a 6 string guitar), but out of the box, there is not much that you’ll be able to do except process the audio signal.
Certainly there is a fair amount to mess with but it’s best managed with the help of an Envelope follower (Synth.com makes a module that allows for this and a gate that can be triggered).
If you’ve got a spring bound expression pedal or are used to playing a Wah pedal, you can certainly get by with a simple EP-2 expression pedal connected to CV-in of the Filter on the Phatty, but it’s alot of work.
I’ll see about piecing together something for YouTube that demonstrates this (I’m a bass player too!)
This is getting way too complex!!!
Midi pick up is the answer! 
Found the thread I spoke of above: http://www.moogmusic.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7666&start=0
It was written by Portamental, a frequent poster here.
(btw: if you have passive pickups, you might want to provide a bit of gain) Enjoy!
I play bass and statrted cooking up a plan to sell my micomoog as soon as i found out about the sp. If I get it, I intend on playing it with midi foot pedals…
Thanks for the help everyone!
EMwhite - I’ll check that post bro.
I do have a MF-101 but am interested in more than just the filter as you can probably imagine… thanks!
update if there are some news about it, and post the video when ready!
Hey all,
I have a related question, which is that I have a voyager, and I’m a bassist. I want to use my bass as a MIDI controller, but everything I’ve heard about bass MIDI says that there is a terrible lag on the E and B strings. I assume this is, because of the immense MIDI data, and may have more to do with the computer than the pickup. Can anyone confirm or deny this, and if so, is there a brand that’s tried test and true for use with Moog synths? Are there alternatives? Someone mentioned using a foot pedal midi controller. Is that instead of a pickup?
A sonuus b2m may or may not work for you.
Here’s a look:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMzrcFRusgM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Y88uC8baiw
It’s an easy and cheap way to get midi from an instrument. I have a G2M, it’s not perfect but I like it a lot.
I don’t have any direct experience but I understand that on a standard stringing (EADG), that lower frequencies are more difficult to ‘track’ for these devices. Has to do (I think) with the amplitude which is more easily discernible as strings are held closer to the bridge.
If you watch the various videos that are posted to YouTube and elsewhere, folks tend to play more ‘lead’ type tones and melodies or solos in any case. If you find something that works well, let us know.
I was getting ready to pick up one of the B2M units but heard horror shows. “looks good on TV” as they say and for $99, there isn’t much in the way of risk.
I don’t have any direct experience but I understand that on a standard stringing (EADG), that lower frequencies are more difficult to ‘track’ for these devices. Has to do (I think) with the amplitude which is more easily discernible as strings are held closer to the bridge.
The problem with the lower frequencies is the frequency of the fundamental. By the time you figure out what the frequency is the latency is pretty long. For example the low E of a bass guitar is 41.2 cycles/sec. So one cycle takes roughly 24 msecs. Sonuus claims the midi latency is 32 msecs for that note. That seems pretty good considering what it’s trying to do but it’s still a fair amount of latency so most likey you’ll want to play up the neck where the latency is much less.
I was getting ready to pick up one of the B2M units but heard horror shows. “looks good on TV”
Someone should do a video showing why they don’t like the Sonuus.
I think you have to accept that Sonuus connected to your guitar is a new instrument. This new instrument is not going to play like the guitar does without the Sonuus. It’s going to be slower and you have to play more cleanly. Also the lower notes may or may not be useful for you. If you can live with these limitations then you may like Sonuus.
I have the G2M and I find it helpful to damp the guitar strings to minimize faulty triggering. I put a thick rubber band under the strings at the nut. There’s still plenty of sustain for the Sonuus. With Sonuus I’m limited in what I can play but not as limited as I am without it. It can be annoying though and it’s not for everyone.
John
Interesting. So it’s a matter of the wave and latency, not necessarily how clean the particular note is played? Based on what I heard/saw/read, I I thought that it had to do with the attack on notes (or absence of it) and thought maybe a compressor might help.
Thanks for explaining the science (physics?) behind it. I think I am going to take the plunge shortly. As you said, play a cello (or maybe a bagpipe (!)) and you wouldn’t necessarily do so using an Eddie VH lick.
…but I agree, I’d like to see somebody play it and show it’s faults; but in a constructive way. It’s easy to make any product look bad if you are not being fair.
As a G2M owner, I concur with everything johnjay has said. He’s right on about the frequency being the determining factor of the latency, as frequency is a function of time and any pitch-to-MIDI unit is only going to be able to process a given pitch so fast. There’s an inverse relationship between frequency and wavelength – so as the fundamental pitch decreases, the wavelength increases. This means there will be fewer wave peaks passing a given point in time, thus slowing the ability to detect the note.
Here’s a video of a simple latency test with the Sonuus G2M (not mine):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1kW617Kb_I
It’s also worth noting that a suitable MIDI guitar solution is not as easy as slapping one of those Roland GK pickups on your guitar, as those are merely hexaphonic pickups, despite being regularly referred to as “MIDI pickups”.
The frequency of the note determines the latency but you have to play clean or you’ll trigger the wrong notes. If you play more than one note at a time you get bad sounds. Certain fretting techniques that sound fine with the guitar pickup can trigger wrong notes. If you fret hard, almost like a hammer on but not that loud you can trigger a wrong note. If you’re guitar has any fret buzz you’ll trigger wrong notes. But even with all that, there’s still a lot of room for expression. Hammer ons and pulls-offs can work. Bending notes work too.
Proper use definitely requires a bit of discipline and finesse. When I first started using it, I approached it as an entirely new instrument. As you mentioned in an earlier post, this was something you also did.
This may sound a bit ridiculous, but I actually have an EHX Big Muff in a switched loop that runs before my G2M. It has absolutely no effect on the sound; its only purpose is to feed the G2M a nice sustainy signal. I previously had an EHX Black Finger compressor after the Big Muff to sort out the transients, but I took it out after realizing the Big Muff does a decent enough job at squishing the signal.
Here’s how I have it integrated in my setup for live play: http://bestnetworx.com/uploader/files/159/setup-block-diagram.png
Option two is my favorite, where I can play things on the guitar and have the Little Phatty in parallel with my guitar and other effects. It’s a great feeling.
I noticed they have a V2 version of the G2M that just came out. It’s supposed to improve the latency and note detection.
I hope it’s better. I was at Guitar Center today and picked up a POG (Micro) for my Bass. Tried it and the MXR unit out. The MXR was horrible even with a MusicMan Stingray (which has a good preamp in it). I asked the guy at the counter, whom I’ve known for some time if he even had the G2M, he said he’s sold about 10 of them and every single one has come back.
V2 has got to be better.
My impressions on the POG (polyphonic octave generator), while not necessarily interesting to a Moog crowd, is that the thing is brilliant. Tracks absolutely perfectly across the entire range of my bass, with chords, etc.
Hoping that a v2 of the B2M is soon released.
These folks seem to be able to make the new G2M it work.
I know this is an old post, but have been thinking about this myself. I have a Slim Phatty and wanted to use my bass guitar as a midi controller for it.
If the latency issue is due to waveform length maybe a pedal/effect/piece of software that could transpose the audio signal from the bass up an octave or 2 then have the output from that fed into one of these MIDI convertors before sending the resultant MIDI data to the synth. The faster waveform cycle would vastly reduce audio analysis time and to get the originally desired pitch simply use the octave down setting on the synth.
I may be wrong as it introduces the extra process in the signal path, but I am not certain. I was wondering whether anyone had tried this and could recommend some software or hardware that implements this? Or am I barking up the wrong tree?