I asked this question a while ago, but my musical objective has changed, so I thought i’d spark it up again.
My setup comprises of a laptop running Ableton Live with a small desktop midi controller. Simultaneously, I am running a guitar through the 102, 103, 104z, 105, and controlling some of the parameters with expression pedals on the ground.
What I want to do is automate all the moogerfoogers via midi through ableton, so my guitar signal can be modulated all over the place and in time with the music from Live. This saves the daunting task of buying 12 expression pedals, or 3 MP-201s, apart from the fact that it would be overwhelming to play live with.
The simple solution is a MIDI-CV converter, and I have looked at a few options. I would really like to have all the parameters change, which means about 12+ CV outputs from the converter.
Volta Plugin (http://www.motu.com/products/software/volta) - I am unsure whether or not this requires a MOTU interface, but looks amazing if you have the available hardware. Ability to calibrate oscillators. So my question is what hardware will work for in this instance?
Encore Electronics ‘The Expressionist’ (http://www.encoreelectronics.com/cont_expres.html) - has 8 CV outputs and 8 gate outputs, very extensive and in depth. However, I am looking for something far simpler to use - I just want to automate the 12 CV outputs from +5 to -5v inside a channel in Ableton.
Are there any advantages/disadvantages to any of the above? I do not know a great deal about MIDI-CV, so any help in the right direction would be great, or any experience with these products.
Volta (or even Silent Way) have the most promise of those options. This uses the same resolution as your audio card, which seems to be the biggest advantage. Volta only works on a mac and needs a DC coupled sound card. I have read that people have bypassed a capacitor to allow other soundcards to work, but that seems a bit tricky. If you are running a PC, there is Silent Way by Expert Sleepers that also allows CV input (unlike Volta). This one can record the CV as audio which seems like a great advantage/selling point.
I own a Doepfer MCV24 and I love it. It has 4 hi-res CV outputs and the rest are lower bit. It allows CV (Hz and V), Gate (- and +), envelope or LFO out of each of it’s 24 ouputs. This is great, but you don’t really want 24 LFO’s that can only be tweaked one at a time.
I don’t know much about the Expressionist or any of the Kenton devices.
I shopped for midi-to-CV not too long ago and have tried/seen most currently available. I will not debate your setup goals, or the way you should do things, but if you really want a 12+ channel midi-to-CV unit, at reasonable cost, you should look at the PAiA 9700 MIDI2CV8. 8 CV’s from midi CC’s per board. Line up as many as you want in a modular style box. You’ll need to build them though, they are available only as kits. Around $160 per board/accessory kit(face plate and jacks).
However, if you plan to send the midi CC’S of 12 different continuous controllers from a single source (Ableton or else), then you system may suffer of midi data overload at one point. The MP-201 has a function called the midi governor designed to lighten the load of intensive midi data streams (from mod wheels and such) to less able devices. If that can happen with one, imagine twelve. No way to say how well or (bad) it will work unless you try it.
For my own more limited use (sequencing mostly but discovering new midi-to-cv tricks all the time), a Doepfer A-190-2 and now an MP-201 is what I use.
thanks for the replies. Yeah its a bit of a crazy idea, I just think it would be awesome. Imagine a guitar sound getting rindmodded for one second, a feedback delay buildup in the next second, the murf envelope filter changing continuosly… used in both subtle and extreme ways - really stretching what a guitar is supposed to sound like.
Bryan - Im using a mac so Volta will run fine. Do you think it would be a hassle to get your existing soundcard modded for DC coupling? Also, Im assuming you need additional outputs in the soundcard per CV you want to change? my soundcard is pretty maxed out, and 12 more outputs would require another soundcard just for a midi cv conversion. I haven’t run two soundcards before from the one DAW.
Portamental - thanks for the PAiA 9700 MIDI2CV8 I had not heard of it before. I went to http://www.cykong.com/Synths/PAiA%209700%20Midi2CV8/PAiA9700.htm and mode 4 would be the way to do it - im after CC messages. Also, Im not sure how dumb this sounds but couldn’t you just send the MIDI values on different channels so it doesn’t overload?
I am now even rethinking the 3 x MP201 option - it would be very, very costly but now the OS has been upgraded it would allow for the MIDI to CV conversion to the separate foogers for automation, and also would still allow me to use the exp pedal if I want for experimentation.
Overloading will happen in situations like you describe… continuously changing cc’s… some devices can send load of them. It’s mostly hear say at this point, i have not experienced the phenomenon myself (though i do use midi cc controllers translated to cv) so you got to try any particular combination.
My goals regarding that are similar though more modest. I am looking at carrying 8 midi cc’s to CV and there’s a PAiA in my future, that’s for sure. However, both the MP-201 and A-190-2 allow me 2 full CV’s (from CC’s) in addition to Pitch and Gate CV, so that’s not too bad.
A couple of MP-201’s are a wise investment toward you goal I am sure. The MP-201 can combine CC’s and CV’s on 4 chanel any way you want. Plus there’s a built in LFO to give some movement to your setup.
Supposedly you bypass a capacitor that is blocking the DC on the output. That sounds easy, but finding it and making sure it isn’t ruining your soundcard seems tricky to me.
You would get one CV or gate input/output for each audio input/output as far as I understand it.
I run multiple Midi things all the time out of Ableton Live. But, I am using a MOTU Time piece though. You can get one for $100-$150 used. That allows your midi to be split to different outs avoiding some of the congestion that can happen with multiple cc’s. With Volta, your midi setup shouldn’t be affected at all.
I would seriously recommend Volta for you. It allows more options and can do everything that the other options can do and it does this at a much higher resolution.
If on the other hand, you just want a midi controlled patchbay to route your audio or CV signals, I might have something interesting for you to consider. It is basically a bank of 8 midi-controlled relays. I designed and built this for my own needs around a Highly Liquid Midi to Relay kit. I have successfully run 8 LFO’s into it and used it to modify the frequency of my MS-20 as well as using it to chop audio and sending it to my MF delay pedal. It is a box of mad science and experimenting!
In the middle, if you put 8 different things into the top row of 8, midi notes will connect the signals to the 8 outputs below. Input 1 only connects to output 1, so it doesn’t allow you to route input 1 to out put 3.
I wanted it to be more flexible than that, so I added some switching jacks above and below, so you could input 2 signals, one for the left 4 inputs and one input for the right four. Alternately, you could also have 1 input get distributed to all 8 input jacks. With midi notes you can now route 1 signal to each or all of the 8 outputs.
It works the same in reverse below, but since it is mixing inputs for the bottom 3 jacks, I added some pots to trim the signal level (Passive mixer).
This would allow you to have 1 signal go out to 8 effects, but each effect would be activated with midi note on messages. You could also run one signal to all of your effects and bring the output into this box to select which one you are hearing. It works with CV as well as audio, but you will want to keep them separate and not mix them together. You could have the left 4 be audio and the right 4 be CV. I would make some if people want them, for $200 each (plus shipping). Just PM if you have questions or want one.
MIDI was never designed for this application or other applications like this and the industry is so tied to MIDI now that we are trying to put 10 pounds into a one pound bag and MIDI can definately get overloaded.
I would recomend either Expert Sleepers “Silent Way” or MOTU’s “Volta”. Since these are using an audio interface there is no problem but these do require a “DC coupled” audio interface. The only one I am aware of is MOTU. If you have a Windows system be aware that “Silent Way” is the only system that works with Windows and also works well with Live.
Many companies are moving to “Open Sound Control” such as Native Instruments Reaktor and Max/MSP. I am hoping that the industry will adopt this standard and combine CVs with higher resolution and high bandwide controller message but I think that is a while off.
Also please don’t rule out Expert Sleepers “Silent Way” which in many ways looks better to me than “Volta” and its both Windows and Mac compatible. MOTU told me in an E-Mail that they have no plans for a Windows “Volta” so I have not plans for getting “Volta” even if I get a power Mac which I probably will. I will get “Silent Way” and not “Volta”.
