Modular or Voyager with foogers?

The Moog Forum Moog Music General Topics Forum
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Ok so I’m thinking of going modular. I really like Buchla, synth.com, Macbeth, systems but I’M BROKE! :blush: I have a Virus TI, Spectralis, Moog Voyager select, and soon some Taurus 3 pedals! Wondering if I should sell to get a modular! I’m already about to put my Orange Rockerverb 50 half stack and esp kamilaze on the bay or craigslist. It’s been a pain trying to put a band together. I’m starting to want to go…Modular!

I heard that with all the moogerfoogers and cp251 and x351 it’s like a modular? Is this true? If so I already have a mf102, and mf104z and could get my hands on other moogerfoogers for ALOT cheaper than a Modular. My girlfriend thinks Modulars sound like bleeps and bloops but I hear something more epic. Any thoughts or advice to this?

:bulb:

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I really like Buchla, synth.com, Macbeth, systems but I’M BROKE!

I have equipment from both Dot com and MacBeth. (I too am also broke, so Buchla is not here)
Ken’s new modules look very intresting. His M5 looks amazing, but is quite expensive. You could build a monster Dot com unit for that price.



I have a Virus TI, Spectralis, Moog Voyager select, and soon some Taurus 3 pedals!

IMO… sell the TI and Spectralis.



I heard that with all the moogerfoogers and cp251 and x351 it’s like a modular? Is this true?

It helps. You would “need” a envelope controlled VCA. Synthesizers.com could set you up for a fair price. Roger makes very good stuff and is quite friendly. He stands behind his product.

I already have a mf101, and mf104z and could get my hands on other moogerfoogers for ALOT cheaper than a Modular.

Keep the delay.

What you need to do is ask yourself… or us… "What do I really “need” in a modular synthesizer. "

Moog makes a really nice RM and phaser.
There is nothing like the MuRF.
The delay is amazing!

Your Voyager is a great controller with alot of possibilities, but the XV is needed for real “modular” use.

I recommend starting small, with Dot com, and just get what you lack. (that’s what I did… am doing.)


I really like Moog. I just use the other companies to “fill the gaps.”

(envelope generators, sequencers… stuff Moog has not released yet.

Good luck and enjoy.

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Yeah The Voyager is the one piece I won’t sell. I kind of want to sell the ti and specki but the only thing thats stopping me is the fact they sound sick together! It’s nice to have digital on tap for different kind of sounds. I don’t think I’ll get much more digi stuff because all of the moogerfoogers and modular stuff i want. May want to trade the specki for a jomox 999 but will see. :confused:

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i went the .com route after a few foogers… highly recommended..

Still adding on occasionally :slight_smile:


Then, I replaced some of the Moog functions (white noise, sample and hold) with the .com for voltage reasons, less to hook up, and the .com has pink noise and white oise that goes lower in frequency than Moogs :slight_smile:

Though… I still have all my foogers …

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Congratulations on your purchase!

(Offtopic: am I the only person in the world who thinks that the name synthesizers.com sucks big time? :unamused: )

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no youre not!

But I think its a piece of marketing genius but I think the .com aspect looks crappier on a module…but Arrick Robotics would look great in its stead.

EK

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yeah, i have a dot com too. They are great and don’t have to break the bank. They are something you can add pieces to whenever the money comes around. they sound great too and work with the foogers perfectly.

I also agree that a better name than “synthesizers.com” needs to be in place. Even if they called it the Arrick Modular Synth, or something like that. Names aside, they sound and feel fantastic. Good quality, like Moog.

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AMS Industries has a nice ring to it. :slight_smile:

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My advice on any musical equipment is that given to me a while back: “How are you going to use it musically”. I see all synthesizers and effects, be they digital or analogue, as tools and you don’t simply buy a tool because the tool looks good.

I to will probably buy a modular but only ini pieces. I have certain sounds that I want to experiment with and a modular is probably the only way to get there.

The advantage I see in modulars is that they are extremly flexible. You can plug everthing into everything (sort of). The downside of this is that they often need to be tamed. If you are more into a circut bending sound then you will be happy with just fiddiling with knobs, however, if you want to be more refined its going to take some work.

I have heard the bleeps and bloops arguement about modulars and frankly, at times I find that a valid point. If you go to the internet you will hear for the most part, bleeps and bloops. Most of the videos I see are of people running a sequencer and then twisting knobs to get a differnt sound. That’s pretty marginal music if music at all.

Now consider Pink Floyd’s famous on the run that is duplicated in many places on the net. Remember that they added sound effects to this and rhythm. They made it work musically. It was not just using a synthesizer for the sack of using a synthesizer.

One of my favorite “pure” electronic artists is Morton Subotnick. Subotnick’s technique used what he called “ghost tracks” which are similar to MOTUs volta. His music is a long way from bleeps and bloops. It refelect careful composition and musicality. Of course, he is using Buchla which for most people financially is not possible including myself however much I would love to have a 200e which is an incredible blend of MIDI and analogue.

Ask yourself the simple question: “What sound will a modular give me that I don’t have now that I will use in my music”. Then build a system around that answer.

I regards to foogers and the CP-251. Foogers are modular like. I have mine all mounted on a rack (incl. the CP-251) with a single Vodoo Labs power supply. What they lack are triggers. They make up for this with envelope followers a bit but even with the CP-251, they will not really function as a modular because they don’t have any VCAs with trigger inputs.

The Voyager expansion unit will give you some access to applying CVs and using CVs from the Voyager but again, you are not going to have a full modular.

The advantage of modulars is that you can build them and mix and match. Many people are into the .com format but I find thiis limiting. For example, in my case, vactrols are important to get a Buchla type sound. I also like a lot of the filters I see out there and they are not always in .com format. I will probably go with eurorack for this reason. I am always thinking in terms of application. What sounds do I need?

As far as getting rid of the Virus, again, look at your music. If you sell it are you going to lose something vital to your music. While I do like some of the modular sounds, I have a Korg M3 and I would never consider selling it. It has an incredible keyboard, you can modulate just about everything and it has a wide range of controller options including the touch screen itself which doubles as a controller not to mention KARMA which is a whole new world. It also have a killer group of effects which can also be controlled by all the modulation sources and a modulation mixer.

Also keep in mind that you can’t save patches on a modular. This is limiting. I was disappointed when Clavia droped the Nord Modular which was in many ways a best of both worlds option. I would have bought one. You may also want to consider Native Instruments Reaktor. Think of the software version of the most sophisticated modular you could ever imagine and thats Reaktor. If you want some wild sounds and you have a computer, just get a few of the cheap Kore packs and you will find a universe of sounds you probably have never heard.

Now is Reaktor the same as a modular? Not at all. Analogue circuits react differently than digital and if I did not believe that I would not have a rack of foogers and be considering a modular.

All I am trying to say to you is think musically. I am a composer of experimental music and I always try to think in terms of concept. What am I trying to create. If soft synth works, great, if hardware digital works, great, if modular works, great. Its all a matter of the right tool for the job.

Best of luck with your foray into modulars but don’t be impressed by lots of technical stuff if it does not work for your music which is really the goal.

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Very well put, Lux.

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The first statement I quoted here is some of the absolute best advice I have ever heard. Secondly, I personally prefer the .com format, but again…as you have stated, it’s all about what functionality you want in a synth. I like the Moog sound. Not to say I don’t like the Buchla sound, but I would probably build a Paia kit and add a vactrol to it because I personally wouldn’t be able to justify using a ton of precious space for a full sized modular that would only see marginal use. Again, “what are you looking for sound wise”.

Another thing is, as far as your opinion about sequencers, I have mixed feelings. On the one hand, I see your point. Why buy a synth that plays itself? On the other hand, I personally would get a sequencer to play a pattern on top of (or under) what I’m playing. That way I have the ability to make a whole “song” with bass and chords and rhythm all by myself. Two or three sequencers together would let me play with different sound patterns, and I could switch the sequencers on and off as needed. Just my thoughts. :slight_smile:

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In fairness, a lot of those demos are individuals demonstrating the sorts of sounds that their modular synths are capable of. I don’t really see them as an intent to create music. Those videos are more like a demo by a musician at NAMM showing off a new guitar effect.

The real issue I have is that a lot of folks never get beyond making demos of equipment. Where’s the music that they are making with this equipment?

Bryan

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I think there are some people who love sound design, and they buy these amazing arrays of gear in order to create insane sounds. To these people the patch is the work of art, and many times the patch in an end in itself. It is a noble cause, and their enthusiasm for the gear is great and should be appreciated.

There are others who also are into sound design, but they find the patch a means to an end. Often these are musicians. As far as posting videos, I think the musician has more at stake: especially when it comes to anonymous internet criticism.

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When hit by the impulse to buy gear, I ask myself “Can I justify it? Do I need it? Will it be used?” I have to separate the needs from the wants.

I really want a Buchla 200e but I don’t need it, I wouldn’t use it enough to justify the high cost. I love the way a Buchla forces you to be creative by getting as far away from east coast synthesis as possible. But I have heard little of anything musical of 200e shiplets, mostly bug music for lack of a better term. I did have flight time on a Buchla Music Easel and got some music out of it, but Buchlas are a reluctant machine for creating melodies.

I really want a modular but it would be a lot of work to integrate into my MIDI system and the only way to store patches is a digital camera.

I really want the new Taurus pedals and I will use them - MIDI bass pedals are very practical for me.

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Another thing is, as far as your opinion about sequencers, I have mixed feelings. On the one hand, I see your point. Why buy a synth that plays itself? On the other hand, I personally would get a sequencer to play a pattern on top of (or under) what I’m playing. That way I have the ability to make a whole “song” with bass and chords and rhythm all by myself. Two or three sequencers together would let me play with different sound patterns, and I could switch the sequencers on and off as needed. Just my thoughts.

I agree with your thoughts and I understand what you are saying about sequencers and I have been tempted to even get some of the latest incarnations. Sequences can work really well. Take the example I mentioned of Pink Flloyd’s “On the Run” or a few of the Who songs that use them like “Don’t get fooled again” (although that one has variations). It’s all about doing what you have stated here, to make it part of the music. Sequencers, like synths, are tools.

I would have to say the best sequencer out there is Korg’s KARMA which is granted, much more than a sequencer but it builds on the idea.

When you think about it classical music uses sequences as well. Short phrases that keep reappearing musically. Beethoven did it with three notes but added a lot of variation on top of it and I guess in the end, that is what makes it work.

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In fairness, a lot of those demos are individuals demonstrating the sorts of sounds that their modular synths are capable of. I don’t really see them as an intent to create music. Those videos are more like a demo by a musician at NAMM showing off a new guitar effect.

The real issue I have is that a lot of folks never get beyond making demos of equipment. Where’s the music that they are making with this equipment?

Bryan

Bryan, I can appreciate what you are saying and I admit that many of these are just demos. As for using them in music, that is what I love about boards like this. To talk about how to use a product musically.

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I guess I see myself as a composer but not in a traditional way. My end product is a sound track. How I get that is a process. Sometimes, I use patches almost as is and often, more often than not, layers of them including various effects. Right now, I am working with two studios because I take my time off from my day job at another location. One studio is completely computer based with a fastly aging computer that sputters and burbs digitally every time I push to much audio through it. I almost expect a little man to come out waving a CPU overload sign and a white flag. :laughing:

My other studio is hardware based and pretty simple. A Korg M3, a rack of foogers and an Eventide Eclipse. I hope one day to get a Mac Book pro and move most of my software over to the Mac and then integrating that with the hardware studo and a 3 tiered stand.

I mention this because for me, be it designing a patch or performing, its all part of the same process. I also listen ot a lot of music, mostly classical and of that, mostly 20th century stuff as well as some electronic. I listen to jazz because I like it but I don’t have the chops to play it effectively. None the less, I learned and incredble amount about music learning how to play it badly.

I consume books on music and am trying to learn harmony in a very systematic way as I would at a school of music. I also am trying lately to study musical scores of 20th century composers to pick up on technique.

Anyway, I mention this because I see no difference at least in my musical process, between sound design, performance and masterinig. It’s all part of a process to me.

As for putting stuff out on the net. I can appeciate that people do this but I would love to see more on technique. I can appreicate that a modular can make the sound of a cross between a chicken and walrus in heat but I would love to hear about technique more be it video or otherwise.

Here is some of my music for what its worth. I am open to criticsm. I am a rank amateur but I try hard. It’s free and I don’t care what people do with it as long as I hope they can enjoy it:

http://soundcloud.com/lux_seeker/tracks

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Thanks for sharing! You could definitely get some work in movies/tv/docs/ads with those sorts of tracks.

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MC:

I love the equipment list. :laughing: I could probably do a lot with a John Deer tracktor. Slow it down and add some impulse response and mabye some foogers and who knows.

As for gear, yes, I agree with you. I also agree with you on the Buchla. I fell in love at an early age with Subotnick. My first electronic album (which at that time was vinyl) was Subotnick’s Sidewinder which I still highly regard as an exception piece of old school electronic music. Now Subotnick used Buchla gear but he also used ghost tracks and some really creative but unbelievably painstacking ways of getting something signficant from a Buchla. With the MIDI interface of the 200e, it may be a lot easier now but there is also Volta which looks good enough to me to make me want to get a Macbook since its only on Mac (as is Metasynth, sigh).

A modular is probably in my future but its a toss up between that and a Mac. The Mac would allow me to integrate my two studios and keep the software on the Mac portable to I can take it wherever I want. I can’t do that with the M3 without causing severe damage to my back. This thing is a very heavy beastie (I have the 88 key version, sounds great, breaks backs). To bad I don’t have roadies.

At the moment, I am going to learn more about modulars, keep reading and studying and I hope, make more music. I can get lost in gear and it borthers me because I forget the end product, music.

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Thanks.

Funny you mention movies. Much of this is an initial cut of some ideas I have for a CD which will have text, graphics and short backgroud musical tracks. I seem to be able to compose this stuff and I really like doing it. Hopefully I can be a little more effecient at composiing and not get to sidetracked with gearlust.