Model D verses Voyager

The Moog Forum Moog Music General Topics Forum
1

I recently bought a Voyager and then sold my Model D. I’m curious; What is the general consensus of comparison?

It took me awhile to warm up to the voyager with all it’s goofy presets and a bit of frustration with the misrepresentation the knobs gave to the sound. I would be playing along and hear the next sound in my head and the knobs would not currently map to what was coming out (because of a preset) and I’d get all jacked up. I also had some difficulties with the voyager just sounding “newer” or “cleaner”. This may only be psychological because it was very difficult to tell the difference when in a different room, i.e. with my eyes closed. However, I really put the dang thing through the ringer, and there have been a lot of promises in the past that some synths could sound like a Model D and every time I’ve been disappointed, but I’m comfortable now without the Model D in my life and the Voyager is starting to feel like home.

2

It took me several weeks before I felt totally confident that the Voyager could replace my Minimoog.
After spending some time with the Voyager it became clear that it was
what I was hoping for. I have no regrets about selling the Mini as
the Voyager has more than surpased my expectations :smiley:

3

Hello,I own a Voyager from a week and I didn’t own a Mini model D.
But I think that it sounds great and I had no difficoulties in programming beautiful and strange patches.And the FM,the sync ,the dual LPF with the spacing and the band pass filter give new sound possibilities.
I’m totally in love with it.
Great synth

4

One thing that you can do to get the tone closer is to use just one filter. To do this, run two cables from the machine to your mixer, but mute one side. This will give you the sound of just one filter. Note that this is different than running the machine just from the MONO jack. Doing that nets you the merged sound of LEFT/RIGHT and you still end up with both filters affecting the sound.

Also, set your OSC levels to about 6 or so, not higher. Going higher than that will drive the filter harder and cause more distortion than with the original machine.

5

I have an ‘old’ mini, serial#84xx (old oscillator board) that I bought in '95 and a new Voyager that I bought about 4 months ago.
When I first got the Voyager I did some experimenting between the 2 synths. I set up each to only have oscillator 1 on, with a sawtooth wave. Filter cutoff set at full and resonance set at none. I also put a dummy cord in the ‘right’ output jack to use just one filter of the voyager. There is most DEFINATELY a difference in the sound. I wouldn’t say the old mini is ‘fatter’, it just sounds more ‘alive’. The oscillator drifts up and down constantly, over a period of about 1-2 seconds. You don’t notice a pitch change really, because the drift is pretty small. But it is definately a sound that you hear on old Moog records. Almost like it’s breathing. Maybe my old mini just needs a good calibration. (?)
So, I was disappointed that my ‘new’ mini Voyager didn’t have the same sound.
I have since gotten over that feeling, because the Voyager is AMAZING! Not just because it stays in tune, or because you can save patches, or because there is oscillator synch, FM, and a variety of modulation possibilities, but because it SOUNDS AWESOME! I have the VX351 and plan on getting the CP251 so I have more control over the routing of the synth.
I like the voyager so much that I’m selling my model D!
FreqOut

6

Just wanted to chime in here to say that I had a very similar experience to you guys with comparison to my old Model D and the Voyager. As Freq has suggested, there is a noticeable difference between the two synths. My Model D featured a newer osc board. Its vanilla saw and square waves seemed to possess a higher order or harmonic, based on a single oscillator (though dialing in exactly the same waveform as the original mini can be a crapshoot without a scope from the new graduated wave control of the Voya) The Model D’s oscs seemed to be slightly more ‘full’. I felt that if I could open the filter on the Voyager to 11 (or perhaps 20k) that I might have found the boost I needed to get them just so. I wouldn’t call this a disappointment however, but it took me a few days of playing to gain the confidence in the Voyager I needed to sell my old mini.

The +'s going for the Voyager are overwhelming but the deciding factor for me in selling my Model D was that Voya simply has a unique sound of its own that is permeated with quality. Its a nice, new beast. While a direct comparison with the original mini is unavoidable, I would almost suggest it isn’t really a healthy way to judge the qualities of this amazing new synth. I hope the Voyager really stands on its own away from the shadow of the Model D some day, it deserves its own limelight.

7

Ok, I’m tripping/mildly obsessing over whether I should have the Model-D, or the voyager which I own… I want the deadliest sound… the biggest and the baddest one. (and I really can’t afford to own both)

Here’s what got me trippin in the first place when a friend (who’s never heard a voyager, just owns 2 model-d’s) told me this:

<<<<<<
Here’s the bottom line: imagine 2 boxes of equal weight (but not
necessarily equal size), filled with straws. One box is filled with big
straws, and the other one is filled with small straws.

the one with big straws has fewer straws, right?

When you have more “stuff” (i.e., more routing options, more filters, more
modulation options) stuffed into your box… you suffer on quality. that
is that. every time. what happens is that the signal path is, essentially,
“tighter.” It’s flowing through smaller “pipes,” so to speak… or,
“straws.”

This DOES give better stability and reliability, but it does give thinner
and less spontaneous sound. The old Minimoog is totally discrete- no chips.
Hence, the “pipes” (or “straws”) are wide, and the signal has a lot of
variation… GOOD variation. Kind of like how you blow through a
saxophone- it’s never quite the same, but it’s always good.

Electricity going through wires is just like water going through pipes. 2
gallons per minute can spontaneously slosh out of a big pipe, or it can
perfectly flow out of a garden hose.

Is this true? Does the voyager thin the sound because of all the features?

I have turned it all mono by putting a dummy 1/4" in the right output, and that defiantly made a difference (with some sounds a dramatic difference, others very unnoticeable)

One thing I love about my voyager is all the CV plugin’s, primarily for Wave and Filter.

I will loose this feature with a model d right? Is there a CV input for the filter on a model D? My Pro one has a filter cv in??

Bottom line:

Is what he said about the straws true?

and, If I want that banging old heavy duty sound, how thinner is the voyager from the D? I can live with 95% but not 85%.

but if I can’t control the filter with my fat controller, deal’s off!

I’d really appreciate some responses to this letter! Thanks!!! (so I can sleep at night, kidding)

8

Here’s another perspective. If you can toy with the Voyager and re-create some of your favorite Minimoog sounds (which I’ve done in the music store), that should be an important first step. For me, it’d be about being able to preset the sounds without buying heaps of patch diagrams. For that, I’d personally choose the Minimoog Voyager, if the choice were mine.

9

I’ve had two Model D’s (and now an AE Voyager) and I really believe it’s splitting hairs to compare the two. In the context of a mix, with other instruments, EQ, compression and effects being a factor, a Voyager will be able to sound like a Model D or any other analog synth. I know people insist on doing this ‘side by side’ comparison, but it has no validity unless all you do is play your synth completely solo with no other instruments supporting it!

Invest in a Voyager and it will be the last synthesizer you ever need, if analog is where your passion lies.

10

I just asked my “straw theroy” friend the following:
How much fatter would these same sounds be on a model D?

If they could be up to 8% fatter, I can live with 8%, maybe 10%, but if you think I could get 15% fatter, then I have to have a model D..

What do you think?

http://www.lsinteractive.com/fat2me.mp3
http://www.lsinteractive.com/loopy.mp3
http://www.lsinteractive.com/dadada.mp3

All you guys feedback is greatly appreaciated!!!

(Thanks!)

11

Thought i’d chime in here and say that i think the main problem with the voyager is that the high end is really lacking, it sits much more middly in a mix than the mini and my source and it is really hard work to get it to cut over and above other high/high mid sounds without eq cuts to those sounds. The source can sizzle above any sound i throw at it.

I would say that the Voyager is a better bass machine than a lead machine but in general does not sound as shiny as the early synths like the source, mainly because for me the filter does not open wide enough. Its a shame and is the voyagers achilles heel. I have been turning back to my source more and more recently for liquidy/high frequency leads that soar. The voyager can however nail all the sources bass sounds but again its where the filter cutoff stops opening that stops too short for me.

Obviously in terms of features (touchpad,midi,presets etc) the voyager outclasses most analogues but in terms of raw basic sound it is unfortunately lacking not in bass power but in high end super high frequency power. It doesnt quite have the quality and sheen/shine of the mini and source.Its like listening to those old synths with cotton wool in your ears-i.e. a more muddled fuzzy sound.

Another problem with the voyager i have discovered is that say for example in a 2 osc sound there is a strange phase problem with the oscillators that i have not experienced with any other analog. The bass frequencies drop in and out quite alarmingly on certain sounds, in a beating/cyclic kind of way. Its not the normal drift i asscociate with analogs and also eats at the bass end of the synth.

I dont know whats going on inside the voyager but there are still some issues to be ironed out within its design. If not for the voyagers midi capability and its interface i would use the source 95 % of the time.

This is after spending 12 months using the voyager everyday in the studio.

p.s. I still love it though and would never sell it,primarily for reliabilty reasons.

12

Fwiw, most model D’s (except for R.A. Moog and some Musonics) have IC’s.
Several opamps are on the oscillator board, as well as integrated transistors in chip form. However, this is not really all that important in regards to why a Mini sounds the way it does or doesn’t. (and no, it’s not anything that has to do with the transistors being matched in the filter either :slight_smile:

But the main situation is that your Voyager is relatively new.
It all works correctly and does basically what it’s supposed to.
Finding a good Mini or paying to have one restored to factory conditions costs a considerable amount of time and money.

I’d suggest you play several Minimoogs before you make a decision.
They’re all slightly different usually and you’ll get a better feel.
Just remember that the older they are, the more work in servicing they’ll need usually.

Best of luck.
K

13

The above comments would suggest that the reason some like the Model D better than the Voyager is that every still-existing Model D is well broken in, after twenty-five to thirty-five years of use.

When us youngsters in this forum (born in the late 70’s / early 80’s) have reached their forties and fifties and the Voyager is also out of production, could the Voyager possibly be in the same shape as the battery of Model D’s still being used out there in this day and age?

14

I think people waste too much time worrying about whether or not the Voyager sounds like a Model D.

Of course it’s not a Model D; it’s a superb analog monosynth with its own voice. Oscillator frequency is stable enough so FM becomes a usable possibility, rather than a pipe dream. You’ve got oscillator sync and a separate LFO (with triangle, square, and smoothed S&H outputs available).

Me, I don’t worry too much whether or not it replicates a D. A model D is, to be sure, an excellent example of craftsmanship, engineering design, and execution in production. The Voyager offers the same ease of use, logical signal flow, realtime knobbiness, and basic design of the Model D. All the extras, though, make it really more of its own voice, not a “Model D Revisited” or some such.

All of my really expressive timbres -the ones that make me giggle to myself and rub my hands together in evil glee- can’t be obtained on a Model D. That’s not to say that there’s anything wrong with a D.

It’s just different.

My wife is different from my previous longtime girlfriend. Similar in some ways, wildly different in others. If I spend my time comparing her with the other 'n, I’m missing the point. If I play to her strengths, and encourage her in the things she does differently and brilliantly, that’s probably gonna be more fruitful, don’t you think?

-Hoax

15

I will keep my Model D SN: 1737 for one type of sounds I haven’t been able to reproduce on my Voyager, fat hard basses. My Model D can make really hard basses which my Voyager seams not to handle. Don’t shoot me… I love the Voyager and Moog.

It seam that the Model D’s time from Attack starts to it reaches decay is really fast. When I add resonance the attack and decay still sounds fast and hard. Doing the same on my Voyager results in a little glitch/clicking sound like ”swoop”. (don’t know how to explain it really)

Another thing with the Model D is how fat it sounds. I made a great bass sound on the Voyager and then I made a bass on the Model D. The Mode D only used two VCO’s and it so much warmer and fatter. First I thought I only used one oscillator on the Voyager but I used all three.

Maybe the Voyager is like a fine wine, it has to age and mature. Maybe it will sound like my lovely Model D in 33 years time. The only problem is that I will be 64 years old. :frowning:

Kind regards
Demokid

16

Agreed. I bought the voyager originally because I wanted an updated model d. I’d been looking for one for years but I never found one in good condition or at a reasonable price. And the reason why I wanted a model d was solely because of those hard, tight basses (in my experience, no other synth does them as well as the d does). Unfortunately (because of where I live) I couldn’t check the voyager out first and so I was pretty gutted when I found it it couldn’t do them. For all its other virtues I find the voyager a little flabby* and I don’t think age will ever change this. Been thinking of trying to find a compressor that can really, really smack a sound and use this to toughen the voyager up a bit :slight_smile:

  • I agree with your point about the clickiness of the envelopes - the shape of the voyager’s envelopes are quite different to the d’s - but I also think it’s got to do with the fact that the oscillators are waveshaped…
17

heheheheh. Typical. I make a negative post and then last night the cool sounds just flow out of the voyager. None of which the d would be capable of. And I’m using an envelope (with an exponential decay) from my modular now to control the filter: much better. As with any instrument, you have to play to its strengths and the voyager has plenty of those. But if you really want a d, get a d.

18

I guess nobody really listened to my samples and gave me a comparison… That’s ok, from (almost) ALL the posts and EVERYONE I’ve talked it just seems we’re talking about 2 different synths here and if that’s the case, I’ll try and blindly answer my own question: You (me) couldn’t get those exact sounds out of the voyager in the first place. (right)

P.S. posting your gear list is almost like me posting: (haha, don’t hate me just don’t take yourself so seriously… besides I’m lying)

Tool: 10", thick

19

“couldn’t get those exact sounds out of the voyager” I meant Model - D (duh)

20

Well, I don’t have a d so I can’t help you out, but certainly some of them sound beyond the d’s abilities anyway. Not in terms of thickness, but rather in terms off the options offered: the d is not exactly modulation heavy.

p.s. those samples sound very free of hiss - are they recorded directly from your voyager? Or have you treated them in some way?