mixing analogues

The Moog Forum Moog Music General Topics Forum
1

Hi. I need help from the community on a problem I’ve got.

Here we go:

Hello, my name is Ozy, I am a synth-aholic.

No, it’s not that. I am not yet ready to aknowledge that I have that problem. :blush:

Ok, let’s move to a simpler query:

As a keyboard-dedicated live mixer [the one I keep at hand, not the main mixer the “genius” handles], in order to mix my keyboards and route signals in and out their audio inputs, vocoders, etc.

I currently use the following mixer:

Behringer mx3282a.

Ouch…

It’s bad. Simply as that: it is bad. No dynamics (I am often forced to mix using gain pots rather that faders…).

I like my mixes really “dry”: no compressors, just a pinch of reverb, as little EQ as I can.

The input is made by really good analogs, I dare to say that I play them with a modicum of competence, so all the dynamics and nuances and body I need, I get from the synths and the ten fingers momma made me.

I want to upgrade to…

:question: :question: :question: :question: ?

here’s where the help is needed.

I am constrained by budget (and proud of it. wasting money for bells and whistles, or overshooting, is not artistic), but don’t want to repeat the behringer error.

What am I looking for?

First of all I need a clean and faithful (no added colour) rendition of moog, prophets etc. playing orchestral, fat, organic, brassy and horny sounds.

That’s why I need help from THIS specific community.

Next, I need 32 channels, at least 6 aux sends, and not many subgroups (1+1 for keys, 1 for vocoder, 1 for unprocessed voice, 1 for occasional drum simulation),

I’d like really long, expressive faders,

EQ: just enough for some live feedback-killing or boom-killing.

Budget:

I will be able to get, say 700 euros for the behringer,

and would like to add 1000/1300/1500 tops to that in order to buy a USED mixer.

Let’s say something in the range of 1800/2000 euros (2800/3000 us$) for a used machine.

WHICH mixer?

Midas is a bit out my budget I am afraid, I’d go the extra thousand miles only if a real opportunity happens.

Soundcraft comes to mind. Which one?

I have been offered a Soundtracs. Any reference?

Any suggestion?

Anything you people tested with a bank of our beloved analogs, and felt it was good?

Weight is not an issue, age is not something I have predjudices against, real estate can be accomodated, thousands of kilometers for the nearest repair points are definitely NOT desired.

Thanks in advance for any suggestion.

Please, first-hand only information needed, no hearsay or “everybody knows that…”.

I can browse the internet myself, I need real-life tests.

Thanks again

2

From what I’ve read about this board, it is an exception to the usual Behringer “quality!” It seems to even have been built using Mackie components, and seems to have been designed to provide a great amount of headroom.

Is there something broken or misadjusted on the board that forces you to use the gain pots instead of the faders to balance your mix? Usually you would adjust your pre-fader levels using the channel gain pot while monitoring the channel level through the PFL bus. The gain level is usually a set and forget (or minor tweak…) affair. After that, you would normally use the faders to balance the channel levels in the total mix. If you are using your gain pots to balance the levels, then you are missing out on what that board has to offer.

From what I’ve seen, this board is going for around $500 +/- on the used market, so asking 700 Eur ($1000 +) may be a bit optimistic on your part. One is currently being offered on ebay for $599, or best offer.

IMO, you might be better off reading through the user manual again, and experimenting with how you’re using the board. But then again, I don’t have the whole picture here, so I may be wrong.

HTH,
Bob

3

Mayidunk: “from what I read… … It seems that… A mackie… Etc etc” (a page of patronizing).


There’s some reason why I asked for opinions born from real usage and direct knowledge.

I could have googled reviews myself, thx.

I read the manual. I even learnt (ooo:::!) that gain pots and faders have different purposes (really?!? OMG…)…

… That doesn’t change the FACT that a voyager, a VL1 and a mx3282 don’t play in the same league,

According to my ears.

I’m still begging for advice from somebody who really puts analogue through a 32x8 mixer.

Thx in advance

4
5

I’m sorry, I really didn’t mean to sound patronizing. Good luck with the new mixer! :smiley:

6

You’re quite rude, aren’t you ozy?

I’m using a Mackie LM3204:

And a Samson MPL1204:

I could tell you about my experiences with these if you like, but individually they don’t fit your requirements.

I could also offer the idea of a Toft:

but I haven’t used one, though I knew somebody that did, so you don’t want to know, right?

7

I use a Soundcraft Spirit Studio 24 at home. I wouldn’t gig with it. Nice long faders, good bussing, clean preamps etc.

8

Thx.

The “long faders” part is perhaps the most important for me. Need faders, not on/off switches who pretend to be faders.

Why wouldn’t you gig with it? Heavy? Fragile? Oversized? What?

Thx for expanding, if you may.

Thx also for having been factual and on topic. I really need the information, plenty of it, and asap.

(It’s not about rudeness. It’s just that there are 2500 threads about showing off. Plenty of room and audience there)

9

I use an Alesis Studio 32. I won’t gig with it as I don’t gig. Since it is no longer in production, it is a moot point. I found it to be extremely flexible and good for my purposes. Your mileage may vary.

10

The main reason I wouldn’t gig with the Studio 24 is its size. 19" rackmount mixers make more sense for gigging, IMO.

Another good feature is the recording I/O. Sends and (switchable) returns for each input, so it works well for old tape machines etc.

No meters per channel, only overloads and sub group meters.

Btw, there’s a Studio 32 in England on ebay, &689 BIN

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SOUNDCRAFT-SPIRIT-STUDIO-32-CHANNEL-MIXER-CONSOLE_W0QQitemZ110443283337QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxq20091109?IMSfp=TL091109191001r1974

11

And another one, also Britain:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Soundcraft-Spirit-Studio-32-channel-sound-desk-mixer_W0QQitemZ320447583277QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Mixers?hash=item4a9c2a142d

12

The Toft looks good until you see the $8,000 price tag and the “Made in China” sticker on the back. :unamused:

I’d keep looking for a used Midas, or maybe a used Ghost.

13

Soundtracs are proper mixers, long faders, great sound and feel, and not too expensive. I work with one on a regular basis at my friends place.

I use an Allen & Heath ZED-436 myself. Apart from the so called audio interface (which I never use) it’s a really nice board, one of the few boards out there for a fair price with this amount of channels (around €2100) . They are equipped with 100 mm Alps faders so expressive mixdowns won’t be a problem.

Good luck with finding the right mixer.

14

Mackie CFX12mkII here. Its great but I need more channels.

15

Hi all.

I am out of town and no computer at hand. I am replying from a blackberry, writing is awful.

Thanks for all the comments, I will reply in the next few days.

I’d love details from Maskin re Soundtrac, because the one I was offered is really cheap. If it’s good, I’d go for it.

16

Tell me what you want to know. :slight_smile:

17
  1. Sharon Stone’s cell phone #, favorite drink and location of g-point

(answer in private mail, pls)

  1. price of gold, copper and Caterpillar stock in 12 months

(ditto)

  1. more difficult, but public answer allowed:

re: soundtrac.

can you quantify your experience on the following points?

the premise is: I want to move a nice step up from behringer as far as mixing nuances are concerned

basically:

low noise even when routing the same signal twixe through the mizer,

clean path,

long fader excursion

EQ: no need to give “body” to sounds, but occasional need to cut excess frequencies at the top and bottom end

if behringer costs 1000 and midas 4000, I can spend about 2000.

I need a comparative cost/quality assesment

I don’t need to buy a mixer from scratch,

then:

  1. it would make no sense to sell the behringer in order to get a 10% improvement,

and

  1. I can’t sell a behringer and buy a Toft, simply because I can’t.

So:

is the soundtrac worth an upgrade?

18

To be honest I’ve never heard any noise through the channels. I’m not sure we’ve ever re-routed signals but when cranking up the gain to boost my laptop’s signal there’s still no noise to be heard.

The path is standard like any other analog board, not sure what you want to know here.

It has 100 mm faders, a big plus is that the channels have a lot of space between each other so you can easily fidle around on the board without touching the other channels.

Most of the Soundtracs boards have a double mid-sweep (if not all) and the overall EQ reacts very precise in my opinion.

My friend bought his Solo for €600 from some small recording studio which went digital. I’ve never seen one above €1500 so I think you’ll be alright.

You can compare the specs yourself: http://www.studiosystems.co.uk/soundtracs/
To be honest I think any A brand mixer will improve your current mixer and if you want quality you’ll simply have to pay for it (unless it’s second-hand of course).

It would make sense if you buy a scond-hand Soundtracs cheaper than the selling price of your Behringer. They’re old mixers so they come cheap.

In short, definitely worth an upgrade.

19

Well…

… Thanks!

IOU a beer.

You sound definitely convincing.

“Space for fingers” is definitely a plus, and “undetectable noise at top gain” is as well. I mix towards a general mixer not to digital recording, so “undetectable” is good for me.



Any objections from anybody on the forum?

Anybody else knows of hidden faults in the soundtracs?

Fragility? Anything?

Thx again

20

No problem. :slight_smile:
I should mention that Soundtracs mixers have an external PSU, not something that would affect the sound but it does take some extra space.