Maybe some minor GUI tweaks

The Moog Forum Moog Beta Forum
1

It’s another long one, sorry.

Here are some small, minor comments on some parts of the GUI. I’m on OS X 10.11.2

First of all, I’m pleased and grateful for all the work that went into the hardware, firmware, and now, software. Nothing I say here is meant to be snarky, condescending, or hurtful. And I know that there were careful design decisions that overrule everything I say here, and that there are limits to the hardware, firmware, and software that can prevent these suggestions from happening, even if we wanted them. So, with all that out of the way…

== These comments are for the stand-alone editor application

The application icon would be nicer (more professional) with a transparent background. (Fixing this is easy in Preview). Right now, it displays as a white block with the angled Sub37 image. How about making an icon of the Moog circle, with an orange “37” subscript?

== These comments are for the Editor panels

The small dot on the knobs is difficult to see without studying the image. (I’m sure it would be better on a 27" iMac, but that’s not gonna happen. :slight_smile: Could the dots on the knobs be embiggened?
Small Dot on Knob.png
Similarly, could we enhance the white line on the rotary switches?

The rate-of-change response of the rotary switches is different than that of the rotary controls. A two-finger drag gives a slow motion to the rotary knobs, and a three-finger drag turns the knob faster. On a rotary switch, a two-finger drag is nearly too fast to control, while a three-finger drag is good.

Could we get scaled values for the panel controls? For the Mod sources, Pitch and Filter mod amounts… 0 to 16K range, with 8192 equaling zero. Could we get that scaled to -5 to 0 to +5? Or a setting to choose between human and computer units? Or shift-click for alternate units?

The envelope attack curve chooser is pretty small. It is difficult to distinguish the right triangle from the slightly bowed right triangle. Maybe just an “Exp” lighted push-button?
Attack Curve.png
The envelope gate source would have better visibility if it were two lighted buttons instead of a drop-down menu. (yeah, need more code to avoid the ‘none’ selection)

Like the env gate source, the pitch wheel destination would be easier to distinguish at-a-glance if it were two lighted buttons.

I think the existing display looks fantastic and is a great accomplishment. I’m wondering how important the software editor has to duplicate the look and feel of the hardware. For example, for the Osc settings in the two modulators, instead of one button selecting two indicators with tiny print, what if there were two buttons stuck side-by-side. Easier to see at a glance what is selected, and they are bigger targets to click on. Same goes for similar controls: KB Control for OSC2, and filter slope on the VCF, maybe Glide Type. (Another picture would make my point, but 3 pics limit.)

== These comments are for the Setup window

Like the env attack curve and env gate source, the Setup MIDI Settings In Ports and Out Ports might be better presented with two light-up on-off pushbuttons, joined together:

	[ xxx |     ]
	  USB   DIN 
	   In Ports

midi ports.png
(yeah, if the GUI framework doesn’t have it, we can’t get it)

Similarly for the Echo DIN In and Echo USB In, two on/off pushbuttons.

For some other parameters, it would be great if there was a two-place radio-button selector. I’m thinking of MIDI Settings Resolution, where we pick between 7- and 14-bits. A pair of radio buttons to select one or the other would be easier to see and quickly distinguish instead of the fine print and tiny yellow dots. imho.

	[ xx ][    ]
	  7       14
	  Resolution

Likewise for the others: MIDI Settings Controller Type, Sequence Options Ref Note, Arpeggiator MIDI Out Mode

Under Global Settings, the KB Priority and Pot Mode could both use these radio-style buttons to select 1 of 4, or 1 of 3, respectively.

Is there a chance to get tuning scale names added to the drop down menu? It’s not really stored anywhere, is it? Almost need the scale editor built in. Version 3.x ?

== These comments are for the Sequencer window

On the far right side, would you want the labels to be left-aligned, to be more firmly associated with each row? I like the left-aligned labels on the left side, since they’re easier to read in a column that way. And I recognize the symmetry in the present alignment against the outer edges.

== These comments are for the Librarian window

The Category and Preset Name control boxes have little up/down arrows on their right sides. Clicking the up arrow moves the selection down the list, and clicking the down arrow moves the selection towards the top of the list. It feels backwards …

Could the Categories in the drop-down list be sorted alphabetically? They come up in a strange order. (Similarly for the hardware.)

When a category is selected, can the Preset Names in the drop-down list be sorted alphabetically? (it’s not alphabetic order now because of the leading spaces in the internal patch names.)

When clicking on the Save As… button, the default file name is left as the raw preset name, with possible extra spaces at the ends and in the middle. See “Fan+C B A S S” for a good example. (Besides trimming the white space, a space might have to be inserted at position 12 if there were words there that needed separating.)

After ‘Get’ from the hardware, the right side table gets filled in. I usually then select ‘Factory Presets’ at the far left, then click on an entry on the far right, and key Cmd-A to select all entries. I then drag the selected entries into the middle table to copy the fresh patches to the Factory Presets folder. This takes awhile, and there is no indication that anything is happening.

Often times, when double clicking on a preset entry in the middle column, the table in the middle column will scroll to some unrelated place. The selected preset appears in the top preset name box, but the columns in the middle have scrolled somewhere else, and the selected preset is no longer visible in the table.

** Import / Export

In the Preset Library panel, the Import Bank and Export Bank buttons can be confusing. We’re working in the editor, and I think of import/export from that stand point.

From the editor, “import” sends a bulk-dump to the hardware, and “export” reads a bulk-dump from the hardware. Seems backwards.

I expected the “Import Bank” button to import a Bulk Dump sys-ex file into the editor, and restore individual patches into a directory: i.e., select a Preset Folder, hit import, pick a file, restore presets from that file.

Since these two buttons have to do with getting/sending data from the hardware, maybe they would better fit over in the Hardware Presets panel?

	[XXX]  [XXX]
	 Get    Send
	  Bulk Dump

(Yes, I see the validity of the alternate meanings, and the benefits of letting the editor substitute for a sys-ex manager in collecting bulk dumps. And, I did read the document, but…)

** Column sorting

Sorting the Preset Library columns:

I’ve found that when clicking on the tiny arrows to sort the columns, that sometimes they don’t respond. For example, click on the arrow of the Category column heading. Click on it several times to sort the columns up and down and back. Now click on the arrow for the Presets column heading. Nothing. Of course, sometimes it does work OK. Sometimes it seems that clicking on an empty part of the table heading will cause a short-term hang when neither column will react to the sort-arrows.

Could we make the entire column heading be active and cause a re-sort, instead of just the tiny arrows?

///

Like I said at the top, all minor things, no biggies, just my musings for today, but maybe there’s a useful tweak or two in here.
Thanks!

2

The small dot on the knobs is difficult to see without studying the image. (I’m sure it would be better on a 27" iMac, but that’s not gonna happen. > :slight_smile: > Could the dots on the knobs be embiggened?

I would certainly welcome the dots on the small knobs being even just a couple of pixels larger in diameter.

3

Yes, it’s not easy to catch the center position with this range … so, what about a double-click on a button to get this position (8192) ?
Non-centered button could be set to 0, this should be really useful to quickly disable a parameter :smiley:

4

+1

Also, and this is really nitpicky, I think having the “smaller” LED’s in the Editor being just slightly larger in diameter would make them easier to see. The size of the “smaller” LED’s I’m referring to are the ones for “Range” under the Arpeggiator, “OSC” and “Type” under Glide, etc, etc. Literally just a couple of pixels larger in diameter would help, if that’s feasible.

Finally, I’d like to have the actual “Rate” LED’s under Arpeggiator and MOD1 and MOD2 shown in the Editor and flashing at the actual set rates, just like the actual Sub37 panel. It would be nice to have the ability to turn this off, if not wanted, but personally I like being able to see the rates flashing to give me a quick visual cue of where they’re set (nice if your Sub37 isn’t physically located under / next to your computer monitor).

Thanks!

5

My mistake, this feature is already available by the Alt + Click function :smiley:

+1 for a bigger dot on the knobs :bulb:

6

THX5 wrote:

… I think having the “smaller” LED’s in the Editor being just slightly larger in diameter would make them easier to see. The size of the “smaller” LED’s I’m referring to are the ones for “Range” under the Arpeggiator, “OSC” and “Type” under Glide, etc, etc.

+1

7

Here’s a snapshot of the icon I use with the editor:
m37icon.png
I’m sure all of you can make better ones.
Pretty sure I can’t share because it’s Moog’s IP.

8

Wow, this is some great feedback! Thanks so much for really giving it some thought.

Your UI-design suggestions are all pretty much spot-on, I think.
I’m reading them with chagrin, though, because it’s too close to our intended release date to act on most of them.
Six to 12 months ago I’d have been able to make sweeping changes, but now anything that requires significant graphical changes is probably off the table (until or unless there’s a major update).

So I’ll see what I can manage on the graphical front… a larger indicator dot on the knobs might not be out of the question, for example, where creating a new “dual lighted pushbutton” element is probably not an option at this stage.

Feedback on a few items from your post:

Nicer icon: looking into it. :slight_smile:

Bigger/clearer knob and switch indicators: Probably doable, might not be able to happen in time for initial release.

Rate-of-change response of knobs vs. switches: new report, I’ll file it for investigation.

“Human” units for panel controls: I’ve been resistant to doing this for a couple of reasons, mainly because it’s a Pandora’s box where the front panel is labeled in various real-world units and the mapping between raw parameter values and real-world units is different for almost every control. The other reason is to encourage people to use their ears and adjust the controls until the sound is right, rather than focusing on a numeric value that may be a misleading approximation. All that being said, I realize that a lot of folks would find it easier to work with friendlier and more informative numbers, even if it was just -100%..0…100%. One thing I like quite a bit about the raw parameter values is that they are real; you are adjusting the parameters at the same resolution at which they are saved and used. Most of the friendly units would show less precision.

Tuning Scale names on the selector: I’d need to update the firmware to output the scale names to the editor, which it doesn’t currently do. It’s doable though; I’ll put it on the feature request list.

Preset Up/Down arrows: These were indeed working backwards; will be reversed in next Editor build

Categories sorted in alpha order: Unfortunately the category list is hard-coded and not editable. This was an unfortunate firmware design decision early on, whose ramifications did not become clear until it was too late to do anything simple about it. The details are too involved for this post, but for the time being the category list just is what it is, and I hope it’s more useful than no categories. :slight_smile:

Preset alpha sort: We can possibly ignore whitespace when alphabetizing preset names; I’ll check.

I’ll look into this.. there was a perhaps-related bug when selecting a preset from the middle column for deletion, which has been fixed in the next Editor build (v0.9.30 or .31), which is coming soon.

Import/Export Bank buttons: Indeed these don’t quite do what I had in mind for them to do, which is closer to what you’d expected. It’s probably not too late to change their behavior (although this might need to be scheduled for a later update).

Sorting the Preset Library columns: should be no big deal to make the whole column headers clickable for sorting.

Thanks again for all the input!

Amos

9

The white dots on the plug-in dials are really minute and it is almost impossible to get a quick overview of the settings by looking at the plugin. To be honest it is also the same issue on the SUB 37 itself, but there you have 3D vision so your eyes pick them out more easily and you have “higher resolution” than on a computer screen - and bigger physical size.

10
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It’s on the to-do list, but probably won’t get into the upcoming release.