one of the first thing I noticed on the filter is that raising resonance will eats up the overall volume. I was really disappointed about this, and I know this happens on many synthesizer but, for example, not on the Korg MS20(12db/oct filter, I know…).
I bought the phatty because I needed a midi controlled monosynth, but now I’m thinking to return to my old Korg MS20+SQ10 setup: really analog, no steppy modulation, weaker but to me better sounding filter, one knob for each parameter, semi-modular concept.
Have you tried setting the Phatty to two poles? You can set the filter slope from 1 to 4 poles on the LP.
yes, I tried the two pole setting to compare the filter with the MS20 one.
however the phatty is really a good sounding synth, but I think it’s overrated.
it lacks features that I took it for granted and that can be found in much cheaper synthesizers like the novation bassstation(!): autoglide and velocity response. big disappointment!
The Voyager will drown out the Oscs when the Filter resonance is high too.
Its just one of those things.
Tell me about it. And those Voyagers come messy pretty fast, with all those wires sticking out the back panel.
Auto-glide would be cool and probably do-able in a firmware upgrade.
Velocity has been standard since Tributes on the LP. There’s even a section in there for how drastically velocity affects the cutoff.
Comparing the MS20 to the LP is sort of silly though, that’s like comparing the Voyager to the Roland SH-2. Totally different synths.
Yeah especially with those expansion boxes they offer with it.
I mean the dynamic, not the filter.
how can you say they are totally different? The internal architecture is the same! 2 osc subtractive synthesis!
comparing the MS20 to the Phatty is not so funny. they are both monophonic and only for this reason they belong to a specific category. compare the Voyager to the sh-2 is really funny. however it was just an example to say that the Phatty is disappointing in several respects, and that a 30year-old synth is better designed than a new one(MS20 lacks MIDI but we’re talking abuot 1978’s stuff…).
Its not saying anything bad that something designed 30 years ago is better than today, thats the case with a lot of things. Its just the marketing mindset that goes into products of today (that all electronics are to be recycled because fixing them is more expensive than buying a new one) that is bad.
Name just about anything and youll say “They don’t make them like they used to.”
Bodies of cars used to not be made of distentegratable plastic. Microwaves used to last 30 years.
Ill bet building a MS20 today with the same parts would cost a lot more than the Voyager would.
Well said. do you remember when the manufacturers provide, along with the instructions, the service manuals with all the schematics? some companies also provided the PCB! if you wanted you could rebuild one! happy days!
There aren’t many car bodies made out of plastic that disintegrate. Even Saturn went back to steel a few years ago. Those that are plastic are usually only using it for bumpers - and for good reason. Those heavy steel ones were murder on pedestrians, cost a fortune, added weight (bad for fuel economy and handling), and rusted away as soon as there was any pitting on the chrome. Besides, look at how reliability has improved in the last three decades and there is no way one can statistically say that “they don’t make 'em like they used to” and keep a straight face. The average Kia is - from a purely reliability standpoint - better built today than the average Mercedes from the '70s.
And microwaves lasting 30 years? Yeah, my grandmother’s Amana did that. But then it cost the equivalant of over $2,000 in today’s money. That amount of money can buy a lot of modern microwaves that may or may not last a decade.
And cheap stuff has always been with us. The reason we don’t remember it is because it was cheap in every sense of the word. It broke quickly, got tossed, and was soon forgotten about. There was a lot of very cheap and nasty tat floating about in every consumer product field. But the quality stuff survived and that’s what we think of as the benchmark. The good old days weren’t always so good, as anyone who owned a Ford Pinto or GM X-body from the '70s will attest. 
Where I will agree with you is that we’ve lost a sense of over-engineering stuff unless it lies at the very absolute apex of the market. The idea that it’s not a bad thing to make that power cord 10’ long rather than 6’ as a courtesy and convenience to the person purchasing it. That those pots should be the ultra-smooth, silky feeling ones that cost $0.10 more each rather than perfectly good but somewhat more brittle-feeling ones that will save a few bucks on total cost of the instrument. And it may also be that because labour costs are now so low (measured in a few dollars per day for workers in the far east, rather than a few dozen per hour in Europe and North America) one can’t effectively pour a lot of money into component material and still make a good business case for a product.
And, ultimately, some of the blame needs to be placed at the feet of consumers. There are lots of people prepared to pay $10 for a “that’ll do” item that might wear out in two or three years rather than $20 for a “that’s fantastic” item that’ll last two or three decades. They’d rather save a buck now even if it means spending more later. Or who buy based on abstract specs rather than true performance.
Oh dear… there I go rambling… 
OK, here’s my two cents because I happen to own both a Phatty and an MS-20 and I have to disagree with you here
I do really like the MS-20 - it does have its own sonic character
but to me, the MS-20 is still a very limited synth
to call it semi-modular in design is a bit of a con to be honest
I hate reading ads for these things where they talk about these “amazing, legendary filters”
granted, they sound different; a very thin timbre
I love the band pass sound
the low-pass on it’s own is weak though
and the high pass doesn’t have much functionality beyond my EQ on Logic
If you want to overcome the volume loss of resonance at high levels then I suggest you get a decent compressor
something like a Keeley is very high quality, perfect for high output instruments and it comes in a small, pedal-sized box
alternatively, Diamond Pedals make a studio quality, optical compressor which is worth looking at
OR
go Modular
Modcan make a couple of filter modules that deal with this typical, high-resonance, volume loss
OR
get a Future Retro XS
As far as the Phatty being ‘limited’, I think it’s subjective and totally depends on what you want from a synth
the MS-20 has:
no means of interacting via CV or MIDI
no option of different filter poles
no tempo-synced LFOs
no oscillator as a source for modulation or oscillator sync
no keyboard transpose functions
no dedicated mod and pitch wheels
no pair of standard envelope generators
no arpeggiator
what it does have is a neat, envelope follower section, the most insane distortion effects I’ve ever heard on any synth, and a unique filter section
all of this considered, mine is for sale
FYI: The volume drop you are hearing on the LP is a result of Automatic Gain Compensation (AGC) within the filter design itself - a characteristic of the Moog filter. This topic has been covered before:
http://www.moogmusic.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6937
Korg’s filter design doesn’t have AGC (AFAIK), which is why there’s no volume drop. Of course, it doesn’t sound the same, either.
I own both synths…
MS-20 has semi-modular qualities and an unique sound but I have to say that I find it quite limited in tone colour possibilities.
Oscilators and filters are thin and it also lacks important features like wave or pulse width modulation or standart EG for filter control.
I have the MS-20 for 30 years and I still love it for crazy twin filter sounds, also for external sound treatment, filtered noises and this kind of stuff. But when trying “musical” sounds I find it limited and even unspiring.
LP has it’s own limitations but I never get upset by that. Tone quality is excelent and I can create lots of inspiring sounds. CP-251 adds modulation possibilities much further and the arpeggiator is a great tool.
Sorry to say but since I have both units I have played the Moog much more than the Korg and I have been able to create a much wider variety of inspiring sounds.
Thinking that the different sound qualities of these pair of synths can be explained because of the difference of poles of the filters is far from true.
Both synths have a completely different personality and sound doesn’t matter if you set 2 or 4 poles on the Moog filter.
Being able to set 1, 2, 3 or 4 poles on the LP is great and it expands a lot it’s sounding possibilities. Sometimes I think that 1 or 2 poles on the Moog sound much closer to an ARP than 4 poles do, but I never find that the Moog sounds anywhere like the Korg. They are too different machines in every area appart of being 2 osc analog synths.
In fact I would say that the Moog on 2 poles sounds like a… 2 pole Moog!
What I’ve noticed with the Moog filter AGC on my Voyager is that it sucks the low end out of the sound. What I’ve done to compensate for this is to simply dedicate one osc to back fill the low end.
What I do is lower all of the osc levels to about 1/4 as a starting point. I then set one osc to a lower octave range than the others, setting its waveform to a pure triangle, in order to eliminate upper harmonics. After that I bring the level of that one osc back up in the mix, just to the point where bottom end reinforcement starts to return to the sound. Since that low end reinforcement can be subtle, I try to balance it so that it isn’t overpowering the lead oscs. I then experiment with moving that osc’s waveform back towards a sawtooth, with the goal of bringing a little edge to the low end without losing the reinforcement it brings to the overall sound. Sometimes I just leave it as a pure triangle. I then tweak and adjust all of the osc levels until I have the balance between them that I desire.
Admittedly, with the LP, you end up with one osc for the lead sounds. However, it might still be worth experimenting with.
I hope this helps, at least a little bit.
Bob
What is auto-glide and how is it different from portamento?
I used to own a Bass Station Rack but I don’t remember this feature. Just curious.
Moogs are very expensive compared to most other synths, especially once you start comparing features. That makes them an easy target for disappointment, i.e. the “I expected more!” comments.
It’s all about the SOUND though. Korgs sound different, Moogs, Rolands, whatever. Filter poles be damned, there is no way a 4-pole SH-2 will sound like a 4-pole Minimoog. I’ve owned about 10 different analog mono synths over the past 15 years and out of all of those I’d say I liked the sound of the Novation Bass Station the least, by far. I’d rank the Little Phatty somewhere in the Top 3, along with the Octave CAT and SCI Pro One.
The LP is certainly not for everyone. You have to really want that particular sound in order to ignore its shortcomings.