Lil Phatty CV Upgrade + 104 Spillover Upgrade = Sampler?

The Moog Forum Moogerfooger Forum
1

I have a Lil Phatty Stage 2, a MF 104, and a CP 251. I have not purchased the upgrade for either the Lil Phatty or the 104 just yet. Yesterday, this idea popped into my head. I’m hoping that somebody with an upgraded 104 and either an upgraded Lil Phatty or Multipedal would try this out, tell me if it works, and post a video to the forum.

The idea is to use the upgraded 104 as a sampler.

Whether or not this idea works depends on whether or not the 104s time and mix controls can be adjusted while the unit is bypassed …I can’t find any documentation or examples of the unit in action to confirm this or not. But if the controls do work while it is bypassed, here is how I think the modified 104 could be set up as a sampler.

  1. Setup:

Plug a microphone into the AUDIO IN of the 104. (or a guitar or some other instrument)
Connect the GATE OUT of the Lil Phatty to the MIX of the 104 (set the mix to 12 o’clock)
Connect the PITCH OUT of the Lil Phatty to the MIXER INPUT on the CP 251…then run the negative output to the TIME CV of the 104 (set the short/long switch to LONG and set the TIME knob to 12 o’clock)
Set the Feedback knob on the 104 to where it repeates whatever audio it receives from the mic–but not so high that is starts self-oscilating out of control.
Connect the AUDIO OUT of the 104 to an amp.

  1. Sampling

Clear out any self oscilation/noise from the 104 by flipping the switch to bypass mode. Flip the switch on the 104 to activate the spillover mod. Turn the 104 on. Say something into the microphone–get a loop going (feedback knob might need adjusting). Once the unit is looping a phrase, switch it to bypass mode.

  1. Playing the sample…

So, not having any of the mods I’m talking about, I’m really guessing how this works at this point! But here’s how I think it might work. Turn off the microphone (or unplug it). Adjust the MIXER on the 104 so that when no key is pressed on the Lil Phatty, no sound passes out of the 104 to the amp. Now to figure out the tuning of the sample…playing low keys on the little phatty should send a high CV signal to the 104, thus stretching out the length of the sample and making its pitch lower. Playing high keys on the Little Phatty should send a low CV signal to the 104, shortening the length of the sample and making its pitch higher. Settings on the CP 251 need to be adjusted…exactly how? I don’t know. Also, the GLIDE setting on the Lil Phatty might need to be turned on and the GLIDE RATE might need to be slowed down.

In my head this works great! But on real gear? I don’t know. Does this work for you? If so, how well?

How long can a repeating sample be mangled before it degrades to noise?

Can a repeating sample be tuned to the pitch of the Lil Phatty?

Is this patch easier with the Multi Pedal or the Lil Phatty CV Upgrade?

If you try this with your gear and it works, please post a video–it will give me all the reason I need to buy the mods for my synth/delay. If it dosn’t work, post a video anyway to illustrate what a bad idea this was for my part.

2

Thats a very interesting idea. I do’nt have the spillover mod for my 104, but something like this would probably best be suited for a digital delay. I say this because the nature of the BBD chips your sample would be playable but would degrade. My 104 doesn’t take long before it imparts its own voice to whatever is being delayed. I haven’t noticed anyone here that ot that mod yet, but I think yours isa really interesting idea…getting that casio sampling keyboard thing going by manipulating the delays.



THe closer that you get to the fastest delay times, the less you have to work with on the longer times. Thats been my eperience.


Eric

3

Great idea! But

along with the signal degradation, you won’t actually be triggering a sample, only adjusting the level. So there’s no guarantee that the looping sound will start exactly when you press a key. But maybe that’s okay.

4



I figure that this set up would be pretty unstable; that there’s be no control over where a loop starts and that the looped signal would be mangled to the point of noise eventually. If a pristine sound were what was desired, then yeah, a digital delay–or better still–an actual sampler would be the best tool to use. But I think that the noise and wierdness that would be produced in “playing” a looped sample with all of this analog gear might produce something that’s its own kind of cool. This might be a useful setup for something to be played in a controled studio setting…perhaps not the easiest sound to dial up during a live performance.

Again, I would love it if somebody who has both the delay mod and either the lil phaty with CV outs or a Multi Pedal would try out this setup in a brief video.

Hey Moog!! You guys haven’t posted any Moogerfooger videos to the site recently–you’ve probably got a few units of this gear handy! How about putting together a little demo and showing the die hard fans some summer love. Show me that the patch I dreamed up would be possible if I sent you my gear for the upgrade!

5

Attenuating the PITCH CV would adjust the pitch tracking, but I think it would be very difficult to get it tuned perfectly to the LP. If you need perfect tuning, I think that is the hardest part of your theoretical patch. Everything else you described should work the way you imagine it. I can’t see anything wrong except that the “sample” in the 104 will turn to mush in a hurry the more it repeats, but you know that.

I’m going to guess that all the controls and CV inputs still work when bypassed. That’s just a guess, but it makes sense to me. The bypass switch should just re-route the incoming audio signal. The logical part of my brain says that it would be a lot of unnecessary work to design the circuit so that all controls are disabled by the bypass switch.

6

I actually have a similar rig, but I use an ancient digital delay with CV and Gate ins and play it from my Mono/Poly. Its an Electra EP-501, and its primitive as hell. It takes trial and error to get a decent sample and itll track around 3 octaves or so, but it is really great fun when its acting nice