Am i the only one that took one look at that external power supply that was supplied with their new Minimoog and said out loud “great…i give that thing a lifespan of exactly 2 months past warranty.”
custom unique power supply, with its custom looking cable attachment/pins, and completely sealed so it cant be repaired…you rekkon its going to be running in 40 years like the supplies in the original minis?
heres what i should do…buy a whole carton of these sukkers right now, throw them up in the attic and wait until the minimoog is deleted by Moog in the next 18 months -2 years and then just sit back and wait for the poor bastards to start screaming when all those caps start popping in these unique multi-voltage power supplies, and then here i am with my new Ebay shop offering “original Minimoog PS” for $500 bucks…a bargain if you want the real Moog PS, after all its the only one that makes the mini sound “right” and doesnt introduce all that other noise, right? so you gotta get the original branded ones so you will PAY.
call me cynical. Or an opportunist. or just really worried for my minis lifespan with one lowly external black power lead “lump”…im already scared.
i didnt really want to corner the market. i wanted everyone to think about it and order their own spare power supplies now. And demonstrate how problematic these cable warts are going to be…
The supply is custom in that it provides +15V, -15V and +5V in separate pins - so the only way to replace it is buy a new original Moog supply, or use something like the same connector wired to a DotCom power supply which supplies similar voltages for large format modulars.
heres the problem i see with the way Moog have done things with the re-issue and the power supply.
In the original Moog, when you switched the front power button “OFF” , it dis-engaged the power supply and its caps…ie it turned the synth and its power supply off. This saves the capacitors and the power supply circuit from running when not in use. This is why so many Minis are still working and soldering on 30 or 40 years later with the original power supplies, transistors and capacitors. Use your mini for 2 hours a day? the wear and tear on your moog internal power supply is 14 hours worth a week.
in comparison, with the new Mini, the external wart power supply scenario is “always on” regardless of whether the “ON” switch on the Mini is turned or not. Use your new Mini for 2 hours a day? the wear and tear on your moog power supply is 168 hours a week. WHAT??? That little green light on the PS brick is always glowing, the caps inside are constantly charged and being pumped 24/7 regardless of whether power is being drawn by the kbd. Do you think this setup is going to be still working 30 or 40 years down the track? Honestly Moog were you really thinking about the future here? so short-sighted. Unless you are purposely looking forward to wringing all of us for 6 or 7 power supplies in our lifetime. Maybe that was the plan. Build a synth that will last 40 or 50 years with a PS setup that will last 4 or 5?
The only way to get the same life out of your mini and its PS as the original Mini is to reach down and behind your keyboard stand without spilling your beer or doing your back in, and switch it off at the wall socket every time you use it…thus turning off the power supply along with the synth. Like you used to be able to do on the original Mini from the front panel switch.
Are you going to bend down every time? not likely.
The crystal ball is glowing strongly on this one my friends…prepare for the inevitable.
Right now I actually have mine plugged into a small power strip with a switch on it. So I can actually flip it off with my toe (I don’t wear shoes in the house) so that helps. Other than the fact I’ve forgotten to flip it off a couple of times and had it on for a day or so. I am going to eventually get all my power shit fest arranged so I don’t have a million cords and strips all over but I will set it up so I can turn off the power to the synths completely.
I don’t think Moog will stop providing replacement parts for discontinued products easily.
They still have MP201 parts and they are plans for updating Taurus III firmware. They have sold me parts for the Voyager just a couple of months ago and the guys from their tech support have told me they plan to support the current generation of products for a lifetime.
I don’t find Blackout’s arguments quite valid, with all due respect.
If there is a design flaw in the PSU, I am sure they will make a new version which can be repaired, and even with an independent power switch.
yep this is definately the way around the problem. But you need to be aware of the problem first to do this. I have a feeling a lott of people wont realize it.
i find your supporting arguments quite invalid and irrelevant. You are suggesting that because Moog will possibly not discontinue the power supply as a spare part anytime soon (do you have any confirmation of this?) then its just fine to expect them to blow from normal wear and tear of running constantly and replace them every few years, instead of a change of caps in the original Mini PS once every 30 years or so…because…theres plenty of spares?
No-one is suggesting that there is a specific “design flaw” in the PSU. But unless you are suggesting that the new wall-wart PSU will run full time, 24/7 for the next 30 years, then you must admit that the new mini will not be around and working “as sold” for as long as the original.
Technology has come a long way and its probably fair to assume that the new PS is actually better and MORE RELIABLE than the components in the original! But that all gets thrown out the window when you compare 14 hours a week of running time vs 168 hours a week.
Unless, of course, you switch off Mini at the wall.
I work servicing Moog gear as well as being a dealer for Colombia, and I am in constant contact with both management and tech support.
If I tell you that they will make a revision and a new version of the PSU if there is a design flaw, its because they will.
The accessories and spare parts are still available for discontinued products, and they have told me they are willing to have them for as long as people use their products. They have also told me personally they want their products to be used for a lifetime.
I don’t know the technical details but I saw they explained to you on GS what could be the real drawbacks for this PS. I don’t expect it to fail, but if it does, I will receive the instructions directly on how to service it.
This is really blown out of proportion. Any negatives to the external power supply are overshadowed by the benefits. They used a standard 4 pin xlr instead of a custom connector. It’ll always be pretty easy to find a +-15v, 5V psu, even if you need to get one custom made.
If you’re worried about wear on the psu, unplug it or use a power strip. Caps wear out more quickly when they are not used.
You’ll find that a large portion of high end studio gear uses external PSUs. I wouldn’t hesitate to own any of it simply because of an external psu.
i never said that high end studio gear is no good because it uses external PSUs. Im just pointing out that the original Mini didnt have an external PSU. And therefore the new one is not the same and not likely to last as long.
And i didnt say you should not buy it purely because it has an external PSU. The synth is incredible in its build quality and sound and its simply a beautiful beast reborn. I brought one without hesitation and i feel lucky to have it. Your responses are suggesting i said a whole lot of negative things i simply did not.
Its just not going to last as long if you use it the same way as the original. The PSUs are gonna fry. Unless you turn the thing off at the wall instead of at the front panel “power” switch like you used to be able to do on the original. No mention of this important difference to make the synth last just as long in the manual. And i think many users are going to fall victim to this, and the PSUs are gonna be burning out left right and centre around the world from normal wear and tear of running 168 hours a week. No power supply can run for 30 years non stop. Thats all im pointing out. A lot of ppl arent even aware the new re-issue has the “line-lump” PSU until they open the box and discover its different to the original. The magazine review i read didnt mention it. Hell i didnt know until i unpacked it. And then my heart just sank. But hey in this disposable world things arent designed to last the way they used to anymore, i guess i should just get over it. Worry about it later…after all a few years is like, forever away right, lets just live for now and make some music today…deal with the future when it comes. Lets all be Gen Y without a care in the world.
Just remember, your minimoog will sound thin and lack its magical modjo unless you use the ORIGINAL ISSUED MOOG POWER SUPPLY from 2016. Hell i had a guy at a Hifi Show try and convince me with a straight face that he could hear the difference between a $10 kettle power lead and a $1000 POWER KETTLE LEAD !!(yes it exists)…and thats just the power LEAD. So this should be a no-brainer…lets see, the later year/batch PSUs used different caps, the 2016 version had its caps made in Taiwan, they sourced the caps for the 2018 one from Korea. Theres obviously a difference…It has to be the 2016 one. You can hear the difference already…you know its true…youre getting sleepy…come to my Ebay store..theyre at a special price of only $499…come…
I should buy 1000 at a steep discount.
Then keep them in sealed mayonnaise jars
in the vaults of Funk and Wagnells for 75 years.
I’ll be able to personally deliver directly to your door in
my GooGull flying car any where on the planet.
Only 3000 credits for Earthers.
Mars and the moon will have interplanetary and off world
delivery rates applied.
You are taking your Mini to Mars right?
Two sawtooth oscillators.
In space. Detuned.
Drifting…
That actually sounds kind of fun after I’ve typed it but
in reality I too had kind of a boohoo moment about the line lump.
Other manufacturers have made a point of internal power supplies
being a premium feature.
The Mini is about as premium a mono synth as has ever been made.
It makes no sense. It’s not about price. It’s already way expensive for
a lot of people.
My purchase wasn’t going to be swayed by 2 or 3 hundred more
added to the price. I wanted it no matter what.
But also it makes sense if a big reason is stability.
The new Mini stays in tune after 5-10 minutes.
None of the old ones I’ve owned or used did.
You had to have headphones ready to tune it
throughout the evening of a gig. It’s just what you did.
Now I don’t even bother.
If I haven’t bumped the tuner it just needs to be turned on.
It will come back in tune no problem. It won’t be perfect.
But damn close.
In the end it may have been Moog just wanting to keep costs down.
It puts it in the hands of more people.
The testing and certs are expensive.
And these line lumps are better than average I’ll bet.
You 20 somethings will be still using it or wishing you had never sold
like I did 30 and 20 and 10 years ago.
And I’ll be there at your door.
My GooGull hovering off your pad with a brand new power supply
in a sealed jar.
and that Hooch, is all im really trying to point out in this entire thread…
That anyone with this new mini should be buying 2 or 3 spare backup PSUs. NOW, if you plan on keeping your Mini, because if this decision by Moog.
Or pay the price, later.
(and i do tend to agree with you, if this synth isnt “Premium” then tell me what synth is. And a “premium” synth with a line lump PSU is really quite disappointing.).
Oh get off your external PSU high horse. Your crystal ball is cracked because you don’t know anything about modern compliance laws, about engineering economics, or about history of external PSUs.
The regulations surrounding internal power supplies have changed drastically since the first Minimoogs went out the door over 40 years ago.
If the reissue D had used an internal power supply, it would by law trigger UL testing and approval before any production would start, a process which takes months and costs $$$$$$.
Spreading that $$$$$$ among the very limited production quantity of the reissue D is not economically feasible as it would jack the price out of the market.
There is no reason why an external PSU would make the reissue D any less reliable than an internal supply. I have 30+ years of EE experience in the control field and I can tell you that there are external PSUs dating before the Minimoog (old AB stuff) that are still going strong. I have a british guitar amp here dating from 1963 that uses an external power supply and my guitar amp tech with 30+ years experience with just about every guitar amp ever made says it does not even need a recap. The sky is not falling.
Today you can’t have reasonable price without some modern sacrifices. It’s a case of pick your poison and a balance between marketing and engineering. No amount of whining is going to change it.
Funny. I just brought a DAB standalone radio for $49.95 with an internal power supply. Obviously its price was jacked up way high “out of the market” because of this.
thats great that youve had “line lump” power supplies running for 30 years. I didnt actually know they made them 30 years ago but there you go. I assume you own tons of gear that has a “line lump” PS and not one single PS has failed on you then to support your argument.
Because ive got 2 studios full of them and they fail ALL THE TIME. Probably one every couple of months amongst the 60 or so i have plugged in behind racks and around the place, especially if you include external server Hard drive rack cases and CCTV cameras.
i say again, my post is not meant to be a whine but more a heads up advice and warning to fellow Mini owners to “back up”. (except you MC, because yours is going to last 168hrs x 52weeks x 30 years = 262,080 hours at least.)
